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saxon46
Silverstone


Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Posts: 144
Location: south wales boy bach


PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject: High or low mileage Reply with quote

Looking at getting 997.1 now i’ve made a bit of space in the garage in your opinion with the tales of chocolate engines,if you were me would you opt for a low mileage or high mileage car.....
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14768
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my 2p worth mate,
low mileage car
1/ will cost you a premium
2/you won't enjoy it the same knowing that you paid for a low miler and will want to keep the miles down so you dont lose money on it.
3/ garage queens seem to suffer more with issues as these cars were build to be driven
4/if it goes wrong and you paid a premium you will be gutted

high mileage car
1/ will cost you less to buy
2/ you will already have a fund to put towards any big failure
3/ you can really enjoy it knowing that if it goes pop you already have money in the pot
4/ you brought the car wisely and with the expectation it may go pop
5/ you can get a Harlech rebuild and make it bullet proof and then its a keeper or if you sell it will command a hartech premium that you didn't pay for at purchase time.

Personally if I had circa 30k or had most of it and could happily save the rest over the first 6 months/year I would buy the cheapest best spec car maybe even one with a known engine issue and be ready to send it to Hartech for a rebuild either straight away or as soon as you had the money saved. eg buy one for 16/20k get it rebuilt and a nice reliable car for 30k that will be worth 30k if you sold it . giving you 911 ownership for zero or very minimal cost. Thumb Thumb
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Last edited by Phil 997 on Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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benbuhagiar
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Dec 2014
Posts: 288
Location: Kent

2008 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like buying cars with 60k miles as I think they represent good value. To me 60k miles isn't high but to others (spongebob) it is high miles.
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Rojdog
Newbie


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 44
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Phil. I know alot of people on here won't touch higher mileage cars but unless you are buying purely for an investment I don't see the logic.

If you buy low mileage and drive it you will devalue it by racking up the miles anyway.

If you plan on keeping the car mileage isn't such an important factor.

Don't get me wrong a lower mileage car is nice but only if your budget affords it.

With regards to the engine just go into it with your eyes open and factor in that in your ownership you may end up with a big bill from hartech.
 
  
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
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Joined: 05 Dec 2015
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Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben its true, Porsches seem to have an accepted mileage of 7k pa which is ridiculously low but is the accepted in the Porsche world, so your looking for a car thats maybe an 06 so 13 yrs old =91k for an ave miler, these cars we see with 30k etc would worry the hell out of me that it had only been driven just over 2k pa and I was going to pay a premium for its lack of use. But probably more likely is the scenario thats even worse than that and that it was used properly for the first 3 to 5 yrs of its life and the last 8 to 10 years its only done 500 to 1000 miles a year standing for long periods in-between use. nooo nooo I know thats how many use there 911 but its just not the way they were built to be used. Thumb Thumb
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 14802
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:


Porsches seem to have an accepted mileage of 7k pa which is ridiculously low but is the accepted in the Porsche world, so your looking for a car thats maybe an 06 so 13 yrs old =91k for an ave miler



The 7k average holds true for water-cooled 911s up to 10 years old. Beyond that the average tails off and you'll find there's actually only a small percentage of cars out there with 80k miles+ showing.

The market for 80k+ mile cars is totally different and values of cars above that threshold is where bargains can be had.
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Counter Of Beans
Monza


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 168
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to me you face two choices, given your question:
1/ buy low mileage for a premium and put very few extra miles on it so that it retains its value, or
2/ buy high mileage and get a bargain, then drive the wheels off it knowing that it didn't have much value to lose in the first place - once over 100k miles it will not be worth much or will be difficult to sell. If the engine explodes, covering everything in cheesy chocolate (!), well you had a contingency fund because you paid much less to buy the thing originally. Then call Hartech or similar. Or break for parts.

I'm very much option 1, but Phil997 (see above) speaks wise words I think.
 
  
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Robert SausageTrousers
Silverstone


Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 135



PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought back in August, had a budget of £25k and bought a 2005 C2S on 49k miles with a freshly rebuilt engine, and I have no regrets (yet!).

I've put 7k miles on it and have loved every second of it, it may have depreciated slightly (if I'm honest I doubt it has) put nowhere near as much as the vast majority of cars you'd buy for £25k, these things hold their value very well as long as they're properly maintained.

I would always rather a lower mileage car, not too low but reasonably low. However, ultimately I'd always go for the best car I could find within my budget , regardless of anything.
 
  
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14768
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counter Of Beans wrote:
Seems to me you face two choices, given your question:
1/ buy low mileage for a premium and put very few extra miles on it so that it retains its value, or
2/ buy high mileage and get a bargain, then drive the wheels off it knowing that it didn't have much value to lose in the first place - once over 100k miles it will not be worth much or will be difficult to sell. If the engine explodes, covering everything in cheesy chocolate (!), well you had a contingency fund because you paid much less to buy the thing originally. Then call Hartech or similar. Or break for parts.

I'm very much option 1, but Phil997 (see above) speaks wise words I think.


I do understand everyone is using their 911 differently and I think the first thing to do is to decide which group you fit into from a use perspective this will then probably automatically give you the answer . But do bear in mind that even a low miler that you paid a premium for could go pop, its not uncommon to read posts from people with 50k milers that have had IMS bearing or borescoring issues. , so is it better to buy a car with a game plan to bullet proof it from the outset or to be worried every time you get in the car that today may be the day it goes pop, I have talked to guys who really do worry every time they go out in there cars nooo nooo how can you enjoy your 911 motoring with that at the back of your mind if you are the worrying type and based on the original question asked you are worried about it Thumb Thumb
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14768
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the type of car I would look at , drive it enjoy it and at some point bullet proof it and have change from 30k and knowing it will be worth 30k with a Hartech rebuild. It looks like a nice tidy reasonably well specced car.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/porsche-911-997-3-8-c2s-manual-1-previous-owner-fsh-3-keys-big-spec-hpi-clear/352540955127?hash=item52151411f7:g:hHMAAOSwvytcCYo5:rk:4:pf:0
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Robert SausageTrousers
Silverstone


Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 135



PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, you couldn't go far wrong with that, at that sort of price.
 
  
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jl-c
Trainee


Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 66
Location: Shropshire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good to me other than “sports chrome” should be “sports chrono”! EVEN if in the worst case it has bore scoring, send it to Hartech and voila, one good car to use.
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14768
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jl-c wrote:
Looks good to me other than “sports chrome” should be “sports chrono”! EVEN if in the worst case it has bore scoring, send it to Hartech and voila, one good car to use.


agreed and if after a borescope it does have scoring then a suitable low offer would get you an even better deal Thumb fingers crossed for you it will have borescore and a 14k-ish offer accepted Grin Grin mmmmm never thought I would be saying "I hope its got borescore" Floor Floor Floor
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saxon46
Silverstone


Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Posts: 144
Location: south wales boy bach


PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input fella's and the heads up on the car phil 👍👍👍I rebuilt 997 would be the best option I don’t mind paying the extra for a bulletproof car,
Or maybe acrue a bit more wedge and look at gen 2......they sem to be coming down slowly
First world problems eh....lol
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DucatiRob
Barcelona


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1468
Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you could manage to find a decent car with a full Hartech rebuilt engine for around £25k, I think it would be a bargain, particularly if it has less than 70k on the clock! Personally I would steer clear of any rebuilds using steel liners!
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spongebob squarepants
Shanghai


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 4537
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

benbuhagiar wrote:
I like buying cars with 60k miles as I think they represent good value. To me 60k miles isn't high but to others (spongebob) it is high miles.


Around the world close to 3 times, virtually scrap Surprised Grin

+1 on a cheap high miler in a non boring colour, rag it till it breaks, Hartech rebuild, job done. Bearing in mind a high miler is likely to need suspension refresh and other high miler possibles, even so an expensive low miles 997.1 is the worst possible 911 buy in the current market.

Option B low miles gen 2, which is worth it and will always hold money well (but yes it’s then essentially a garage queen AKA Herman Yellow)

Alternatively there are a few vanilla mid miles gen 2’s kicking about circa 30 k

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-997/997-carrera-2-coupe/8894931

Good luck, nothing more exiting than a new purchase and the next few months are bargain time
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
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Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 major criteria for buying a car:

Condition, condition, condition.
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14768
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spongebob squarepants wrote:
benbuhagiar wrote:
I like buying cars with 60k miles as I think they represent good value. To me 60k miles isn't high but to others (spongebob) it is high miles.


Around the world close to 3 times, virtually scrap Surprised Grin

+1 on a cheap high miler in a non boring colour, rag it till it breaks, Hartech rebuild, job done. Bearing in mind a high miler is likely to need suspension refresh and other high miler possibles, even so an expensive low miles 997.1 is the worst possible 911 buy in the current market.

Option B low miles gen 2, which is worth it and will always hold money well (but yes it’s then essentially a garage queen AKA Herman Yellow)

Alternatively there are a few vanilla mid miles gen 2’s kicking about circa 30 k

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-997/997-carrera-2-coupe/8894931

Good luck, nothing more exiting than a new purchase and the next few months are bargain time
Thumb Thumb Thumb


That is a vanilla gen2 grey over grey 3.6 very low spec, even that seems a bit overpriced considering Herman White went for under 30k which to be honest was a bit of a bargain for someone but the one in the link should be 30/31k imo
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New997buyer
Yas Marina


Joined: 17 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
3 major criteria for buying a car:

Condition, condition, condition.


Yeah
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Counter Of Beans
Monza


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 168
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
3 major criteria for buying a car:

Condition, condition, condition.


Understood, but you can't just ignore price, can you? As pointed out above, a gen 1 bought for (say) £18k and then sent to Hartech might be preferable to a £30k mint condition car that still might go pop. I'm just saying that condition is related to price, that's all.
 
  
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