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GMG
Monza


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 244
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...really bad luck.I have felt your pain.

Bore Score, Piston Skirt Wear, Worn Bearings and totalled Crank journals at 90k miles on the supposedly more robust 3.4?

Running fine one minute and ***** the next just like mine at 69k...these engines are more fragile than a kinder egg...

Good luck.
 
  
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jond58
Silverstone


Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 142



PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
...really bad luck.I have felt your pain.

Bore Score, Piston Skirt Wear, Worn Bearings and totalled Crank journals at 90k miles on the supposedly more robust 3.4?

Running fine one minute and ***** the next just like mine at 69k...these engines are more fragile than a kinder egg...

Good luck.


Really, I dont post much on here. I do, however, log in everyday and read the threads.
GMG are we going to let it lie now or is this the future of this forum where at every opportunity youre going to bang on about your engine going pop. These cars have some inherent issues, I'll give you that but they are known and documented and as such, as with any second hand car, you buy at your own risk. Did you buy it new from Porsche, Ill asssume not so whos to say the previous owner didnt sit bouncing off its limiter in the garage all night?!
If, maybe 'WHEN' mine goes bang, Ill call Hartech and Strasse get some prices and an action plan and get it sorted. What I wont do is spend every day harping on about it.
Motorised vehicles are a pain, ALL of them have inherent issues and ALL of them have the potential to cost money and frustrate us. Dont like that? WALK EVERYWHERE
 
  
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jond58
Silverstone


Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 142



PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also to the OP. Sorry it has gone boom, good luck with sorting it and keep us posted with what you choose.
 
  
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GMG
Monza


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 244
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...I have as much right to express my opinions as anyone on this forum...the fact that I don't harbour and express demonstrable delusions such as ...nicely run in at 100k miles...or....3.4s don't bore score etc,etc seems to offend sensibilities?

Vis a vis my car...the indisputable fact is that it went pop to the tune of £15k without warning...

It is now safely tucked up in my garage and I am indeed over it but this experience hasn't changed my view that these engines are fragile and can and do grenade without warning and irrespective of useage and maintenance history...

And I have owned dozens of cars and not one has had a foible so significantly expensive or illusive to predict...these engines have inherent flaws that stretch far beyond the typical norm and anyone that believes otherwise is frankly beyond objective reason...
 
  
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 14669
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
...I have as much right to express my opinions as anyone on this forum...the fact that I don't harbour and express demonstrable delusions such as ...nicely run in at 100k miles...or....3.4s don't bore score etc,etc seems to offend sensibilities?




That's cos it's a lie. Yes, a very small amount go pop. Many don't. Most cars on the road don't even get to 20 years old. Nobody's in denial that there are some inherent faults that a small % of these cars suffer, but the way you post is as though they're the world's worst engine that will undeniably go bang when you least expect it.

Its like saying all Muslims are terrorists!

And where did the OP state all this - "Bore Score, Piston Skirt Wear, Worn Bearings and totalled Crank journals at 90k miles on the supposedly more robust 3.4?" or did you invent that too?

You're just not very helpful to other members. I've aske you twice now if you can fill your details in on the 996 ims bearing data collection thread so we can track the amount of failures and other members can decide for themselves how much of an issue it is and make a judged decision but you couldn't even be bothered to do that. All I got was:

GMG wrote:
...mine collapsed at 69k miles...no warning... dwarf and bearing debris found throughout the engine when stripped down...


&

GMG wrote:
...no dwarfs were found in the engine...swarf was though Very Happy



When every other member who's posted on there entered their data.

Do you not see why members get upset when you post on here?
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Last edited by alex yates on Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:14 am; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6488
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have said before that from looking at the design, hearing other peoples stories, talking with engine experts, and from engines I have seen myself, unless I knew the FULL history of the engine and how it has been driven from new I would want new bearings in it by 100k miles as a precautionary measure on these. I wouldn't be worried about bore scoring or IMS bearing, but the bores would be checked for ovality when it is apart.

MC
 
  
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James M-S
Imola


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 777
Location: Derbyshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear this Mike.

I’m sure it will come back in better health than it ever has been.

James

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Kryton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 333
Location: Coniston, Lake District


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll be a great engine when you get it back OP Thumb
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1962



PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think people need to re-address their use of language, and their conception of what "flaw" means in particular.

The 911 is a sports car - when the 996 was launched it was classed as a super car (that expression feels dated now, to me at least), and it's worth looking at why.

Quick answer? They're exciting, they have a dynamic performance envelope that gets the pulse racing, adrenalin flowing - and may result in having to tow your car out of the field it ended up in.

I think the M96 designer should be praised for wanting to add to this - not only do you enjoy the excitement of the power, grip, "interesting" weight distribution, but you also have the wild-card element represented by the main bearings/crank, IMS, valve-train and bores.

You can be stuck in traffic, with for e.g. a very low chance of ending up in a field, upside down and on fire when suddenly, out of nowhere - boom! The crank has broken as you put the clutch in.

Suddenly your day is as exciting on the commute as if you were taking Eau Rouge flat in fifth.
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 14669
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep - that sounds like my daily commute Grin
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g911omr
Monza


Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 223



PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure it has been said before, but anyone buying a 996 will surely have done a bit of due diligence and will be perfectly aware of the potential mechanical pitfalls. You would like to think that the engine, assuming it has been looked after properly, will last beyond 100k. The facts are that most do but some don't.
My C2 has done 55k and to the best of my knowledge has been very well maintained and serviced regardless of mileage. If it goes bang any time soon I'd be proper peed off. However, I know that is a possibility and I knew that when I bought it.
 
  
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James M-S
Imola


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 777
Location: Derbyshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear this Mike.

I’m sure it will come back in better health than it ever has been.

James

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GMG
Monza


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 244
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...did you look at the pictures Alex? To these eyes they reveal the faults that I listed? Did you see something different? Am I wrong?

I have no interest in being a sycophantic slavishly agreeing with views for the sake of 'fitting in' to a clique...I have an opinion on this subject and I am comfortable with expressing it despite the vilification it oddly attracts?

For what it's worth I love the 911...always have, however , and demonstrably ,the M96 engine is shockingly poorly engineered...
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5735
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not the sort of post i normally reply to .. as you all know ..

Its rare but it can happen .. your 10 year old TV will break at some point .. your 15 year old fridge will break at some point ..

Porsche cars are a lot more expensive though .. should they last for ever with no problem is the question .

The trouble with building a light weight .. fast .. sports car is you are not building like a volvo .. longevity , you are much closer to F1 .

Its always going to be a balenceing act for Any manufacturer to get it right .. add to this Porsche was almost bankrupt at the launch of the 996 .

i dont agree or disagree with the design .. cast iron block would have lasted longer though Smile

Is it common .. not really .. i see no more than what i would class as normally wear and tear which depends a huge amount on how its been driven over the years .. these cars dont fall off a cliff when they get to 100k miles ... ask poppopbangbang !!

What i would say is everyone is entitled to their opinion wether its good or bad .. i answer a post and do just that .. im not going to argue with what anyone else says .. i just make my point .. OP decides what posts they want to go with .

Just my 2 pennys anyways Very Happy
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GMG
Monza


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 244
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...beautiful balanced as always Ian or should I say Boogy Man Dance
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5735
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
...beautiful balanced as always Ian or should I say Boogy Man Dance


Bless you Very Happy
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skinny_monkey
Nürburgring


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 391



PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the engines cost 3k to repair no one would really care.
They cost 15k tho, which is difficult to stomach on a 15k car. But its also a big part of the reason they only cost 15k!
You want a more robust engine? Ok. 997.2 for you then. Oh, but it's 40k.

As for the OP's bad luck, who knows what the sequence of events was. However I am fairly confident that the bores, pistons, and crank did not all go independently of each other. More likely one went first and then caused increased stress on the other parts. Sorry to hear it happened. But enjoy the 3.7 Laughing
 
  
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 14669
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
...did you look at the pictures Alex? To these eyes they reveal the faults that I listed? Did you see something different? Am I wrong?



So in your expertise, how scored is that bore......or is it just general 90k wear?

..........and what's to say anything in those photos hasn't happened within the moment of it packing in? If the oil pump failed then I'd expect to see many parts of the engine in a very poor state.
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GMG
Monza


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 244
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...either scenario vindicates my view that these engines have significant 'flaws' that render a very expensive rebuild necessary at intervals that are impossible to mitigate against or predict thereby making them a gamble to buy...

The above is I believe an accurate statement ? And doesn't mean that I am a 'hater'.

Thus my advice to anyone looking to buy one remains the same; ensure that you can afford a rebuild should the worst happen...or buy a rebuilt one thereby removing most of the worry...
 
  
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g911omr
Monza


Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 223



PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="GMG"]...either scenario vindicates my view that these engines have significant 'flaws' that render a very expensive rebuild necessary at intervals that are impossible to mitigate against or predict thereby making them a gamble to buy...


Your are right. There is no doubt about that. But a secondhand car of any brand is always going to be a bit of a gamble and a 996 is certainly going to bite you on the butt if things go pear shaped. The answer is fairly simple though. Don't buy one. 2 indies that I know fairly well both told me not to bother, "Don't get one, they are rubbish"
I took no notice so only have myself to blame when it goes tits up.
Maybe I should get rid now?
Anyone looking for a nice 3.4 C2 that for the time being is running well?
 
  
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