Joined: 09 Nov 2010 Posts: 667 Location: Berkshire & London
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:55 am Post subject: After Sales Service from an OPC
I need advice please from you guys n gals....
I recently came back to Porsche after having three 911's in the past and bought a 2013 Cayenne Turbo from a OPC.
The sale went well and I collected the car on 18th October. The sales guy was on holiday from 22nd October for the week so I awaited his return as there is two items I'd like fixed/looked at.
I spoke to him on Monday 29th October and mentioned that since I collected the Cayenne the brakes were squealing badly and i wanted it rectified. there was no immediate "of course sir I can get that done"... what he said was "our 11 point check would have picked up any issues and have you tried braking hard a few times as the cars been sitting for a while" I'm far from stupid in the car world after 3 previous Porsches, 2 Lamborghinis, various Mercedes AMG models and Audi RS models to name a few so when he said that I quite frankly insulted and said similar words to him.
As I’m sure you’re aware, brake squeal is from worn pads/discs or simply the brake pads need de-glazing and anti-squeal compound applied, probably the latter in this case.
I also mentioned that I’d of thought that any OPC used vehicle should of had the PCM maps upgraded to the latest maps prior to sale but my vehicle is still running 2013 maps, he mentioned there would be a charge for this to myself which I do not agree with and I’d like this upgraded.
I want these 2 simply items rectified at the OPC expense as I don't expect after spending allot of money for a low mileage vehicle this should be at my cost or any used vehicle after such a short time of ownership at an OPC.
I've requested help through Porsche UK after logging a similar email with this info this morning.... what are peoples thoughts on this?
spongebob squarepants Long Beach
Joined: 20 Dec 2009 Posts: 6069 Location: Manchester and Iraq
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:03 am Post subject: Re: After Sales Service from an OPC
baldguy wrote:
I need advice please from you guys n gals....
I recently came back to Porsche after having three 911's in the past and bought a 2013 Cayenne Turbo from a OPC.
The sale went well and I collected the car on 18th October. The sales guy was on holiday from 22nd October for the week so I awaited his return as there is two items I'd like fixed/looked at.
I spoke to him on Monday 29th October and mentioned that since I collected the Cayenne the brakes were squealing badly and i wanted it rectified. there was no immediate "of course sir I can get that done"... what he said was "our 11 point check would have picked up any issues and have you tried braking hard a few times as the cars been sitting for a while" I'm far from stupid in the car world after 3 previous Porsches, 2 Lamborghinis, various Mercedes AMG models and Audi RS models to name a few so when he said that I quite frankly insulted and said similar words to him.
As I’m sure you’re aware, brake squeal is from worn pads/discs or simply the brake pads need de-glazing and anti-squeal compound applied, probably the latter in this case.
I also mentioned that I’d of thought that any OPC used vehicle should of had the PCM maps upgraded to the latest maps prior to sale but my vehicle is still running 2013 maps, he mentioned there would be a charge for this to myself which I do not agree with and I’d like this upgraded.
I want these 2 simply items rectified at the OPC expense as I don't expect after spending allot of money for a low mileage vehicle this should be at my cost or any used vehicle after such a short time of ownership at an OPC.
I've requested help through Porsche UK after logging a similar email with this info this morning.... what are peoples thoughts on this?
Your 100% correct on all points, the least that should be expected of an OPC _________________ 991 C2S PDK - X51 430 powerkit, Carbon GT2 folding buckets, PCCB, PDCC, PSE, Carrera S alloys, Sports design bodykit with ducktail and Alcantara steering wheel. If Carling did a 991S...
“Herman yellow, the last of the naturally aspirated. ”YKIMS"
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squelch Montreal
Joined: 05 Jun 2016 Posts: 508 Location: Bucks
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:06 am Post subject:
Sounds like your salesman needs some customer service training - all salesman are different and it seems he's now focusing on closing the next sale and has forgotten you already.
When I bought mine the Nav upgrade was the only thing my car needed and I insisted it be done as part of the deal. As you didn't ask for it as part of the sale you're now effectively asking for it as goodwill, which they're not obliged to do. But given the minimal cost to them, why on earth wouldn't they just do it?!? I don't suppose it's checked as part of the 111 check so you could forgive them for not knowing it's an older version (although I'm sure I've seen OPC's listing cars boasting the latest nav upgrade).
If you have no joy with your salesman you could try escalating to the dealer principle.
With regards the brake squeal, Porsche seem to think it's a normal by-product of the braking process. They released a video earlier this year:
Porsche seem to be burying their heads in the sand when people point out that other manufacturers manage silent braking. Even the fact that some squeal and some don't squeal doesn't seem to worry them. In many businesses such variations could highlight a (worrying) lack of consistency somewhere in the business, but I guess the approach here is that as long as they work then that's the main thing.
I don't think you'll get far with the brake squeal since Porsche see it as normal, but I would be persistent with the Nav upgrade. Good luck. _________________ From Stuttgart: 997 GTS, 997 GT3 (Kermit)
From Munich: 535d M Touring
From Bologne: Ducati Superlight
Gone but not forgotten: 996 C4S, 964, 924
FZP Estoril
Joined: 18 Jan 2015 Posts: 3898 Location: Cheshire
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:27 am Post subject:
Porsche, along with all manufacturers will need to lift their game on the software side of things as cars become more software dependent. The ability to increase performance or efficiency will come via over the air updates as per Tesla's do currently.
I also had to pay to upgrade the maps but I refused to have a suction cup stuck to my windscreen. The cost of the map upgrade at the time was approximately the same as buying a third party job.
I think you might be coming up short in this instance for the software. The brake squeal even less so. Good luck though in trying to get it sorted. _________________ 997.2 Carrera 2S GT Silver/Cocoa.
MaxA Albert Park
Joined: 11 Oct 2015 Posts: 1671 Location: Helsinki
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:33 am Post subject:
I'd have been a bit miffed about the old software for the sat nav, but brake squeal is a bit trickier. They might take the car in, and (re)apply some anti-squeal compound, but I doubt they'd warrant it as a fix. Personally I don't mind a bit of brake squeal on what is already a noisy car, but I have compromised by fitting upgraded brakes and pads to my cars. On the other hand, I do understand that there are people who can't abide it for a moment. _________________ 997.2 Carrera4S: white over blue, driven and tracked, seldom clean.
jonttt Long Beach
Joined: 20 Aug 2012 Posts: 6447 Location: Liverpool
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:09 am Post subject:
The software issue us the norm ie they would not routinely update software on a used car.
Some as implied above do manaage to negotiate it as part of the deal but the implied "it doe not cost the dealer anything" is not true. It can be a time consuming job in the workshop which has to be logged / there is then more risk / liability re warranty if it goes wrong and the cost of the software which is a stock item so is not free.
Tech is changing all of the time and newer cars offer over the air auto updates etc.... but you bought a 2013 car ie running 3.1 PCM and its a porsche so not cutting edge lol.
Re the brakes, customer service has to be better but you have to remember that they deal with a wide range of customer, some of whom would complain that a crease in the leather has occured.
I'm just looking at this from a retail point of view and someone who has to deal with escalated customer complaints on a regular basis _________________ 1997 Porsche 911 993 C4S My Journal
2011 Porsche 987.2 Boxster Black Edition My Journal
Ex 2014 Porsche Boxster GTS My Journal
2017 BMW 740 Msport
2017 RR Evoque Autobiography
mikeluke Kyalami
Joined: 03 Jun 2014 Posts: 1975 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:32 am Post subject:
Which OPC? _________________ Current:
981 Boxster S PDK
BMW X5 4.0d M Sport
BMW M140i (Mrs L's)
VW Polo Match 1.2 (the lad's)
Former:
996 Turbo S Cabrio Manual
996 Turbo Coupe Tip
968 Cabrio Manual
DRZ911 Barcelona
Joined: 13 Mar 2013 Posts: 1471 Location: Belfast
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:59 pm Post subject:
squelch wrote:
Porsche seem to be burying their heads in the sand when people point out that other manufacturers manage silent braking. Even the fact that some squeal and some don't squeal doesn't seem to worry them. In many businesses such variations could highlight a (worrying) lack of consistency somewhere in the business, but I guess the approach here is that as long as they work then that's the main thing.
My 997.2 and 991.1 C4S squealed like a London taxi, and now my 991.2 GT3 squeals like 10 London taxis.
On the 991 C4S, went through a number of dealer visits to resolve the squeal issue (including replacing parts at their cost). But in the end, no improvement was realised and the OPC resorted back to the clause in the owner's handbook that this is "normal" for high performance braking systems.
So I now accept the squeal for what it is - a characteristic of the system which Porsche engineers can't or won't be bothered to engineer out of the vehicle, leaving little scope for manoeuvre for the OPC to provide an effective service remedy. So I have a certain amount of sympathy with the OPC, but there is certainly no need for the OPC to handle any customer in an unprofessional manner when they bring forwards a legitimate complaint. _________________ 991 Gen 2 GT3 Racing Yellow
Yamaha R1 and BMW R100RS
Phil 997 Le Mans
Joined: 05 Dec 2015 Posts: 15570 Location: Bournemouth,Dorset
You quite right to be annoyed they are quite minor requests and I am shocked at the fact you didnt get an immediate YES sir .
Your correct to inform Porsche UK , I would also suggest calling the dealer principle and making him aware.
the 111 point check will only flag things that are failures or beyond a certain level but wont automatically put right as issue thats within tollarance but still causing an issue . the PCM upgrade wouldnt be part of the 111 point check but should be std practice for a dealership selling a car at OPC inflated prices. You must have got a 2 yr warranty buying from an OPC so throw it back to them for the noise to be sorted under warranty. the PCM upgrade it so simple and about 10 mins of a techs time I am stunned they just didnt say yes sorry it was an oversight. good luck keep us posted and remember re the brakes you can go to any OPC with a warranty issue _________________ 911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
Windy101 Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 05 Jun 2015 Posts: 286
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:16 pm Post subject:
Phil 997 wrote:
You quite right to be annoyed they are quite minor requests and I am shocked at the fact you didnt get an immediate YES sir .
Your correct to inform Porsche UK , I would also suggest calling the dealer principle and making him aware.
the 111 point check will only flag things that are failures or beyond a certain level but wont automatically put right as issue thats within tollarance but still causing an issue . the PCM upgrade wouldnt be part of the 111 point check but should be std practice for a dealership selling a car at OPC inflated prices. You must have got a 2 yr warranty buying from an OPC so throw it back to them for the noise to be sorted under warranty. the PCM upgrade it so simple and about 10 mins of a techs time I am stunned they just didnt say yes sorry it was an oversight. good luck keep us posted and remember re the brakes you can go to any OPC with a warranty issue
I don't think that any braking issue would be covered by the warranty, if it concerns discs and pads as they are consumables.
Magic919 Barcelona
Joined: 05 Jun 2013 Posts: 1288 Location: Berkshire
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:23 pm Post subject:
If he’s had the car two weeks, it’s not really a warranty matter.
PCM updates are not routinely done as they tie up a ramp for hours and can be a pain to complete. _________________ 997.2 C4S PDK
Windy101 Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 05 Jun 2015 Posts: 286
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:30 pm Post subject:
Magic919 wrote:
If he’s had the car two weeks, it’s not really a warranty matter.
PCM updates are not routinely done as they tie up a ramp for hours and can be a pain to complete.
I agree, I was maybe not clear - its down to the OPC to sort - not a warranty issue.
baldguy Hockenheim
Joined: 09 Nov 2010 Posts: 667 Location: Berkshire & London
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:35 pm Post subject:
Thanks all.. i appreciate everyones feedback, I decided to not go to the OPC Dealer Principal as the Salesman really pxssed me off tbh so I want his tap on the shoulder to be a surprise (if it happens)... The sales guy said he'd be talking with the DP anyway but we all know on here that never happened yesterday!
I'm so not normally like this but when you part with your hard earned I expect service especially from a premium brand OPC.
My 997 Turbo had PCCBs and also squealed, the Indie I got that from without hesitation paid for Reading OPC to de-glaze the pads but in the end we all know most ceramic Porsche brake systems squeal as a pre-req and they started again after 3 months.....
I await Porsche GB's answer as I've had an aknowledgment from them to say they're looking into it....
Phil 997 Le Mans
Joined: 05 Dec 2015 Posts: 15570 Location: Bournemouth,Dorset
If he’s had the car two weeks, it’s not really a warranty matter.
PCM updates are not routinely done as they tie up a ramp for hours and can be a pain to complete.
I agree, I was maybe not clear - its down to the OPC to sort - not a warranty issue.
Yes agreed in hindsight the warranty is not the right action, and as I also said involve the dealer prinsiple as well as Porsche GB this is surely a customer service issue thats quite easy and cheap for them to resolve. the PCM upgrade can take a while to do but the tech doesn't have to stand over it so shouldnt take much of their actual time. Was it one of the London OPCs cant remember which but one of them got a slating on here recently _________________ 911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
deMort Dijon
Joined: 21 Mar 2015 Posts: 7589 Location: Brighton
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:06 pm Post subject:
Cayennes dont tend to suffer from brake squeel .. its not a common thing imho .. or if it is then i just done see them !
It would have been prudent for the OPC just to have booked the car in and check .. if deglazeing / paste required then its only an hour or two they would have to pay the workshop so peanuts from the proffit made.
yes sales / workshop and parts at any OPC are treated as seperate companys and each bills the other at full retail cost .
Navs are Never updated at an OPC .. reason is cost .. Porsche tend to charge rather a lot for a nav update code (all dealers have the discs but you need a code ) .. so if requested pre purchase they would have to factor that into the proffit margin ... Post and its usually a no im afraid .
From memory and i dont think there has been an update since 2016 so thats the latest one available . _________________ .
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baldguy Hockenheim
Joined: 09 Nov 2010 Posts: 667 Location: Berkshire & London
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:49 pm Post subject:
As usual.... Cheers deMort... great feedback from the horses mouth as such.... also thanks to all others that have commented.... I'll await the verdict from Porsche GB...
I have found very different levels of professionalism and service from different Porsche centres.
baldguy Hockenheim
Joined: 09 Nov 2010 Posts: 667 Location: Berkshire & London
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:18 am Post subject:
So..... Many thanks to all for the varied replies....
As expected Porsche UK showed their true colors... I made it "very" clear i'm a seasoned Petrolhead and know my stuff, and to be sent a Youtube link to explain brake squeal is quite frankly insulting.
The guy from the Porsche UK Customer Service is clearly an 18 years old and leaves for the day getting into his 1.0 Corsa as he sure knows nothing about Customer Service or Performance cars, I don't expect this from a performance marque who charge the earth for their cars and service and who clearly have zero customer service to give.... i'm beyond livid!!!
My slightly edited email string below....
MY INITIAL REQUEST I LOGGED ON THE PORSCHE UK CUSTOMER SERVICE WEBPAGE
I recently came back to Porsche after having three 911's in the past and bought a 2013 Cayenne Turbo from Porsche Centre East London.
I was dealt with by xxxxx, the sale went well and I collected the car on 18th October. xxxxxx was on holiday from 22nd October for the week so I awaited his return as there is two items I'd like fixed/looked at.
I spoke to xxxx on Monday 29th October and mentioned that since I collected the Cayenne the brakes were squealing badly and i wanted it rectified. there was no immediate "of course sir I can get that done"... what he said was "our 11 point check would have picked up any issues and have you tried braking hard a few times as the cars been sitting for a while" I'm far from stupid in the car world after 3 previous Porsches, 2 Lamborghinis, various Mercedes AMG models and Audi RS models to name a few so when he said that I quite frankly insulted and said similar words to xxxx.
As I’m sure you’re aware, brake squeal is from worn pads/discs or simply the brake pads need de-glazing and anti-squeal compound applied, probably the latter in this case. I also mentioned that I’d of thought that any OPC used vehicle should of had the PCM maps upgraded to the latest maps prior to sale but my vehicle is still running 2013 maps,
xxxx mentioned there would be a charge for this to myself which I do not agree with and I’d like this upgraded. I’m looking for your help to get these 2 simply items rectified at Porsche Centre East London’s expense as I don't expect after spending £43,000 for a 33,000 mile vehicle this should be at my cost or any used vehicle after such a short time of ownership. I live 80 miles and nearly 2 hours away from Porsche Centre East London but I’m willing to travel to them and take a courtesy car whilst they carry out this work. I hope you can help me with my request and contact xxxx or his Sales Manager to get this simple request rectified as I feel I’ve been let down by the lack of his Porsche Customer service skills. I look forward to your reply on these 2 matters
Best Regards xxxxxxx
Good Morning xxxxx
Thank you for contacting Porsche Cars Great Britain.
I am sorry to hear of your concerns regarding your vehicles brake squealing as well as your vehicle not having the latest version of maps.
In regards to your vehicles brake squeal I have added the below video link which I hope assists in explaining the brake squeal that may occur, the video will explain that brake squeal may occur when the energy of motion is converted into heat and minute vibrations which then dissipate throughout the brake system.
This can sometimes be thought to be a malfunction although this is infrequently the case. I hope the below video helps to explain this in greater detail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUNHb9O52WQ
I have contacted Porsche Centre East London to discuss the total cost to have the brake pads stripped and deglazed as well as applying the Maps software update.
The costs for the above work on the brake pads is £576.00 and the cost for the maps software update is £216.00, as a gesture of goodwill Porsche Cars Great Britain will be able to contribute £192.00 including VAT towards the work carried out on the brake pads or Software update.
To use the £192.00 goodwill gesture from Porsche Cars Great Britain please quote the following reference number to Porsche Centre East London - xxxxxxx
I hope this assists you, if you have any further questions please let me know.
Thank you for contacting Porsche Cars Great Britain.
Kindest Regards
Personal Case Manager
Porsche Customer Assistance Centre
On behalf of Porsche Cars Great Britain Ltd
Bath Road, Calcot, Reading, RG31 7SE
Phone: 03457 911 911
Email: customer.assistance@Porsche.co.uk
Good Morning xxx,
I’m totally gobsmacked that a premium vehicle brand doesn't look after their customers better.
I expect Porsche East London to put my issues right at their cost, chatting on a well known Porsche Forum that I've been a member of for 10 years plus everyone agrees the squealing should not happen.. I've had many performance cars and the only ones that have squealed albeit ceramic brakes have been Porsche, even my 2 911 C4s "big red" brakes didn't squeal.
I'm also very surprised that you being the main Porsche dealer can't enforce such an action as such.
I'm disgusted with the service I've received, I suggest Porsche East London uses the £192 towards customer service training for xxxxxx.
Regards xxxx
Good Morning
Thank you for your email.
If you feel the video link in my previous email did not answer your query, you can of course book your vehicle in with Porsche Centre East London for your concerns to be addressed further.
The Service department of Porsche Centre East London will be able to contact you after your vehicle is assessed further to discuss their findings and how they can assist going forward.
I am sorry I could not help further personally, if you have any further questions please let me know.
So I guess I'll get mixed replies to this, but for me, I'm totally disgusted with Porsche UK and Porsche East London, they have zero customer skills. I've never ever experienced this from any other brand I've had and quite frankly if it wasn't for the warranty I have they'd never see me again.
Porsche - You have a huge amount to learn from most other brands about customer service, stop hiding behind your herritage as your cars are shxt at times.
GARY S Monza
Joined: 06 Aug 2016 Posts: 175
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:16 am Post subject:
"stop hiding behind your herritage as your cars are shxt at times". Well said. Porsche have been doing this since 1997 when they traded in engineering excellence for maximising profit margins, mass producing their cars & diversifying into family salons & SUV's.
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