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Cameltoe & Heel
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1204
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
The targa roof system is far more reliable than the 996 / 997 system .

When it does go wrong and requires cables though it is a massive job .. roof has to be cut off as its bonded in place at the rear from B post to B post .

You will get some noises from these but 90 % can be fixed .. at the end of the day the roof flexes an awfull lot and they were noisy from new .. let alone these days .


and this man knows Wink

Trev
 
  
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6723
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ireid wrote:
TBH the torque is of greater interest to me than the BHP. I don’t know enough about engine mechanics to understand the inter-relationship between power and torque. No doubt I’m going to be enlightened as part of the process!


My laymans understanding is this...

If you are a cyclist you can climb a hill in a high gear by heaving on the pedals at low rpm... and more muscular legs (equivalent of bigger capacity, or forced induction) will be quicker as they can apply more torque at lower speeds. Or if you have spindly legs (smaller capacity) you can achieve the same speed (and hence power at the wheels) by clicking down a few gears and pedalling quicker.

Power = force multiplied by the number of times that force is applied.
_________________
"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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ireid
Newbie


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 43
Location: West Riding


PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just digesting this
http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/power_and_torque.htm
_________________
981 Boxster GTS
Previously:
Gen 1 Cayman S
997 C2
997 C4S
981 Boxster S
 
  
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Albionmuz
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Posts: 367
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cameltoe & Heel wrote:
deMort wrote:
The targa roof system is far more reliable than the 996 / 997 system .

When it does go wrong and requires cables though it is a massive job .. roof has to be cut off as its bonded in place at the rear from B post to B post .

You will get some noises from these but 90 % can be fixed .. at the end of the day the roof flexes an awfull lot and they were noisy from new .. let alone these days .


and this man knows Wink

Trev


He does indeed, he pretty well silenced my Targa top today whilst my car was in for a service. Cannot speak highly enough of him! Very Happy
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993 Targa manual
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ehcsrop
Newbie


Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 7



PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 993 Targa ?? Reply with quote

ireid wrote:
What do owners past and present think of the Targa vs the coupe? In particular, how noticeable is the reduced rigidity and how much more prone are they to squeaks and rattles?


Acceptable levels of rattles and squeaks can be subjective. The previous owner of my targa described it as free from rattles, though I did not agree during the test drive. It also felt slightly ponderous compared to the cabs let alone the coupes I had driven. As others have said the targa is a cab body. So consider it is fitted with a heavier glass roof, then its center of gravity will be higher than the cab.

I still bought it because:
1) Absolutely love the targa silhouette
2) My sunscreen is always drawn back and with the cabin constantly flooded with day light or street lighting, it makes every drive a little bit more special than if I were in a coupe.
3) Fantastic experience driving with the glass roof open, does not buffet as much as a cab with the top down and aids with hearing the raspy Europipe mufflers.
4) Love the targa silhouette.

For me this is a fast A/B road car with the roof opened. I would be disappointed with its performance on track. Having accepted that, I can't get enough of this car, it comes out at any given opportunity and it just feels special everytime. A 3.8 top end, RS clutch + LWF and Europipe boxes have helped, but have I mentioned that its the targa roof line that really appeals to me.
 
  
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Cameltoe & Heel
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1204
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: 993 Targa ?? Reply with quote

ehcsrop wrote:
ireid wrote:
What do owners past and present think of the Targa vs the coupe? In particular, how noticeable is the reduced rigidity and how much more prone are they to squeaks and rattles?


Acceptable levels of rattles and squeaks can be subjective. The previous owner of my targa described it as free from rattles, though I did not agree during the test drive. It also felt slightly ponderous compared to the cabs let alone the coupes I had driven. As others have said the targa is a cab body. So consider it is fitted with a heavier glass roof, then its center of gravity will be higher than the cab.

I still bought it because:
1) Absolutely love the targa silhouette
2) My sunscreen is always drawn back and with the cabin constantly flooded with day light or street lighting, it makes every drive a little bit more special than if I were in a coupe.
3) Fantastic experience driving with the glass roof open, does not buffet as much as a cab with the top down and aids with hearing the raspy Europipe mufflers.
4) Love the targa silhouette.

For me this is a fast A/B road car with the roof opened. I would be disappointed with its performance on track. Having accepted that, I can't get enough of this car, it comes out at any given opportunity and it just feels special everytime. A 3.8 top end, RS clutch + LWF and Europipe boxes have helped, but have I mentioned that its the targa roof line that really appeals to me.


Great post and echoes many of the reasons I have a Targa, how do you get a 3.8 top end?, are you saying you have RS heads?.

Trev
 
  
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ireid
Newbie


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 43
Location: West Riding


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: 993 Targa ?? Reply with quote

ehcsrop wrote:
ireid wrote:
What do owners past and present think of the Targa vs the coupe? In particular, how noticeable is the reduced rigidity and how much more prone are they to squeaks and rattles?


Acceptable levels of rattles and squeaks can be subjective. The previous owner of my targa described it as free from rattles, though I did not agree during the test drive. It also felt slightly ponderous compared to the cabs let alone the coupes I had driven. As others have said the targa is a cab body. So consider it is fitted with a heavier glass roof, then its center of gravity will be higher than the cab.

I still bought it because:
1) Absolutely love the targa silhouette
2) My sunscreen is always drawn back and with the cabin constantly flooded with day light or street lighting, it makes every drive a little bit more special than if I were in a coupe.
3) Fantastic experience driving with the glass roof open, does not buffet as much as a cab with the top down and aids with hearing the raspy Europipe mufflers.
4) Love the targa silhouette.

For me this is a fast A/B road car with the roof opened. I would be disappointed with its performance on track. Having accepted that, I can't get enough of this car, it comes out at any given opportunity and it just feels special everytime. A 3.8 top end, RS clutch + LWF and Europipe boxes have helped, but have I mentioned that its the targa roof line that really appeals to me.

Thanks for that. Can you tell me more about how the RS clutch differs from the standard one in terms of feel, lightness, bite etc?
_________________
981 Boxster GTS
Previously:
Gen 1 Cayman S
997 C2
997 C4S
981 Boxster S
 
  
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ehcsrop
Newbie


Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 7



PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: 993 Targa ?? Reply with quote

Cameltoe & Heel wrote:


Great post and echoes many of the reasons I have a Targa, how do you get a 3.8 top end?, are you saying you have RS heads?.

Trev

Hi,
I had over abbreviated there, so as not to deviate from the OPs initial questions. Its a 3.8 conversion and top end overhaul. I can dig out the paperwork and PM you the details if interested.
 
  
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ehcsrop
Newbie


Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 7



PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: 993 Targa ?? Reply with quote

ireid wrote:

Thanks for that. Can you tell me more about how the RS clutch differs from the standard one in terms of feel, lightness, bite etc?

Hi,
The issue is not so much about how the clutch differs, but rather how the LWF differs. Main benefit of fitting a LWF is to let the engine rev faster. I believe the standard clutch is only suitable for the heavier DMF (correct me if I am wrong), hence why an RS clutch or one with RS spec is required.

If you are used to a DMF, you will need to recalibrate your clutch/accelerator balance and once you have mastered it, its a joy to use.
I have heard some people say that they dont last as long, but that could be down to incorrect use and those individuals riding the clutch too much. It needs to be used more like an on/off switch. The first set on my car was fitted by the previous owner and saw 46,682 miles of use before it needed replacing.
Would not have been an ideal set up for me if the car was mainly used for a town driving. A lot of folk say there is no place for a LWF + RS clutch unless you are tracking the car. I don't do track work and this set up works beautifully for me on fast A/B roads.
So the best bits for me:
A menacing chunter at idle (to some it may sound like a bag of nails).
It feels raw, bites quicker and somehow gives me the sensation of being hardwired to the transmission (placebo?)
A more responsive acceleration.
Rev matching on down shifts- its so razor sharp and sounds race car like.
Overall it offers me a more immersive driving experience.
 
  
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Cameltoe & Heel
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1204
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: 993 Targa ?? Reply with quote

ehcsrop wrote:
ireid wrote:

Thanks for that. Can you tell me more about how the RS clutch differs from the standard one in terms of feel, lightness, bite etc?

Hi,
The issue is not so much about how the clutch differs, but rather how the LWF differs. Main benefit of fitting a LWF is to let the engine rev faster. I believe the standard clutch is only suitable for the heavier DMF (correct me if I am wrong), hence why an RS clutch or one with RS spec is required.

If you are used to a DMF, you will need to recalibrate your clutch/accelerator balance and once you have mastered it, its a joy to use.
I have heard some people say that they dont last as long, but that could be down to incorrect use and those individuals riding the clutch too much. It needs to be used more like an on/off switch. The first set on my car was fitted by the previous owner and saw 46,682 miles of use before it needed replacing.
Would not have been an ideal set up for me if the car was mainly used for a town driving. A lot of folk say there is no place for a LWF + RS clutch unless you are tracking the car. I don't do track work and this set up works beautifully for me on fast A/B roads.
So the best bits for me:
A menacing chunter at idle (to some it may sound like a bag of nails).
It feels raw, bites quicker and somehow gives me the sensation of being hardwired to the transmission (placebo?)
A more responsive acceleration.
Rev matching on down shifts- its so razor sharp and sounds race car like.
Overall it offers me a more immersive driving experience.


Nice response, indeed standard clutch will not fit RS flywheel, the RS clutch has in built springs to replace the sandwiched rubber of the dmf, the standard clutch therefore does not.

I'm still unsure what causes the chatter at idle?,

Trev
 
  
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ehcsrop
Newbie


Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 7



PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 993 Targa ?? Reply with quote

Cameltoe & Heel wrote:


I'm still unsure what causes the chatter at idle?,

Trev

I understand these are normal vibrations of the gearbox cogs, which you wouldn't normally hear due to noise cancelling harmonics from the stock DMF.
 
  
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ireid
Newbie


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 43
Location: West Riding


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m learning stuff here and if I go forward with this project I’m sure I’ll learn a shed load more. Based on my researches I don’t think a LWF is for me . . .
I wanna drive this car almost every day, 12 months a year, bar snow.
_________________
981 Boxster GTS
Previously:
Gen 1 Cayman S
997 C2
997 C4S
981 Boxster S
 
  
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ch3tman
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 636
Location: South Bucks

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 993 Targa ?? Reply with quote

ehcsrop wrote:
Cameltoe & Heel wrote:


Great post and echoes many of the reasons I have a Targa, how do you get a 3.8 top end?, are you saying you have RS heads?.

Trev

Hi,
I had over abbreviated there, so as not to deviate from the OPs initial questions. Its a 3.8 conversion and top end overhaul. I can dig out the paperwork and PM you the details if interested.

Sounds like you have a special car Smile any pics to share?
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1995 911 | 993 C4
 
  
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