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C4-STORM
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Posts: 626
Location: Hampshire

2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject: 997.1 S vs 996 C4S Reply with quote

A recent facebook post which many of us will have seen has got me thinking.

997.1 S Manual is advertised for sale at £23,500 with 55k and the benefit of full Hartech rebuild plus full OPC history.

But to look at, it just doesn't do it for me like my C4S.. In any case with a bit of head over heart logic, I was thinking - good upgrade? Step closer to a 996 Turbo? (Ref. my previous post).

997
3.8 - tick
Manual - tick
Hartech - tick, tick
Basalt Black - tick
'05 - tick (mines '04)
55k miles - tick

996 - just looks mad from any rear angle and I also love the 'Turbo-esque' front end (and the sports seats!!)

Values at the moment seem all over the place:

Valued On:
18/10/2018

PORSCHE 911 [996] CARRERA 4 COUPE (01-04 )
[22337] S 2dr Tiptronic S (01-04 ) NO VRM
88000


Retail: £24,250

Trade: £19,850


Valued On:
18/10/2018

PORSCHE 911 [997] CARRERA COUPE (04-08 )
[28976] S 2dr (04-08 ) NO VRM
59544


Retail: £24,250

Trade: £20,200

Obviously Hartech rebuild goes a long way, but..

STUNNED!! Question
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6646
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its the madness of Porsche buyers. I've been surprised to see where 997s are vs 996s.

The same reason that 964s were sub £10k. There is a time when a Porsche is just out of date and unloved, between the new ones and the old ones thought of as classics, but then becomes talked of as a 'classic' itself and becomes in vogue. Hartech'd 997s manual at £22.5k, fill your boots! I know what you mean though, the 996 4S is just a bit more of a character to me.

Another case in point... over on 911 Virgin... a stunning 15k miles manual V10 R8, yours for £64k. If I had the money I would buy that like a shot, and only £6k more than a boggo highish miles 993C2 Coupe at £58k (of which ropier examples would have been £15k not that long ago!)

There is no rationality to car pricing, simply what people are prepared to pay.
_________________
"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe

Last edited by Robertb on Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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C4-STORM
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Posts: 626
Location: Hampshire

2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robertb wrote:
Its the madness of Porsche buyers. I've been surprised to see where 997s are vs 996s.

The same reason that 964s were sub £10k. There is a time when a Porsche is just out of date and unloved, between the new ones and the old ones thought of as classics, but then becomes talked of as a 'classic' itself and becomes in vogue. Hartech'd 997s manual at £22.5k, fill your boots! I know what you mean though, the 996 4S is just a bit more of a character to me.

Another case in point... over on 911 Virgin... a stunning 15k miles manual V10 R8, yours for £64k. If I had the money I would buy that like a shot, and only £6k more than a boggo highish miles 993C2 Coupe at £58k (of which ropier examples would have been £15k not that long ago!)

There is no rationality to car pricing, simply what people are prepared to pay.


Agree with all of that and I am not sure that the trade values represent what is really happening out there (although they should do).

In reality, I would value mine at less than the book says realistically and the 997 at more than the guide - especially given the difference in miles.

Cannot believe suggested dealer retail is identical for the 2 vehicles with their respective miles.

Although the fact I would be reluctant to part with mine tells me something else.. Dont know
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coullstar
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1264
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it full Hartech rebuild? That does sound very appealing with it being the 3.8.

When I bought my C4s afew years back it was around same price point as a 3.6 997 Carrera.
The 997 was rather tired and didn't appeal to me especially the interior however Id be thinking long and hard over a 3.8s if it were me. I think the 997 with some subtle tweaks are lovely and with is being an S it will be the widebody as well. C4s is a lovely looker but manual and the larger 3.8 would possibly swing it if it were me.
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Robert SausageTrousers
Silverstone


Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 113



PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That 997.1 is sounds like an absolute bargain!
 
  
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14429
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess if you ask for opinions between the 996 and the 997 on the 996 sub forum your going to get slightly biased views Grin I must clarify the 997.1 S isnt a wide body its the 4 and the 4S amongst others are the wide body to accomodate the AWD system. having said that the 997.1 S May be wider than the 996 or even 996 4S but is a narrow body 997 Wink Rolling Eyes dam that sounds confusing Grin I am very surprised at a Hartech rebuilt 3.8 997 at under 25k most are selling in the high 20K's its likely to have tatty bodywork or not a full hartech rebuild or else its just a bargain and someone will grab it quick.
I do agree 996 and 997 prices are all over the place at the moment you see 996 for anything from 12k to 29k and 997.1 anything from 18k to 35k It does seem strange, my old 997.1 has just sold through a trader for 8K more than I paid for it 6 yrs ago and with twice the mileage Surprised theres no logic in the market at present. So all you can do is buy the 911 that you prefer whether its a 996 or a 997 and hope the ass doesnt drop out of either model . It seems with the GT and Turbo cars due to recent years huge overinflated pricing theres some price adjustment starting to happen , this may inpart be why we are seeing such a strange market with the Carreras currently . Thumb
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6646
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair point about 996 forum bias, and its testament to what a lovely bunch 996 owners are that we are all agreed that a 997 S is a great car!

But actually you've had it in other marques too... the F360M can be had for less than F355 like for like, and there is a cross-over between E46/E90 M3s

Maybe a demographic factor... as a car ages it then falls into the wish list of those that coveted when new but can afford them now. As such, the 996 4S wave is happening now, the 997 wave will happen theoretically in 2 yrs or so...
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C4-STORM
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Posts: 626
Location: Hampshire

2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coullstar wrote:
Is it full Hartech rebuild? That does sound very appealing with it being the 3.8.

When I bought my C4s afew years back it was around same price point as a 3.6 997 Carrera.
The 997 was rather tired and didn't appeal to me especially the interior however Id be thinking long and hard over a 3.8s if it were me. I think the 997 with some subtle tweaks are lovely and with is being an S it will be the widebody as well. C4s is a lovely looker but manual and the larger 3.8 would possibly swing it if it were me.


Yes full £11k plus rebuild Thumb
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C4-STORM
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Posts: 626
Location: Hampshire

2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
I guess if you ask for opinions between the 996 and the 997 on the 996 sub forum your going to get slightly biased views Grin I must clarify the 997.1 S isnt a wide body its the 4 and the 4S amongst others are the wide body to accomodate the AWD system. having said that the 997.1 S May be wider than the 996 or even 996 4S but is a narrow body 997 Wink Rolling Eyes dam that sounds confusing Grin I am very surprised at a Hartech rebuilt 3.8 997 at under 25k most are selling in the high 20K's its likely to have tatty bodywork or not a full hartech rebuild or else its just a bargain and someone will grab it quick.
I do agree 996 and 997 prices are all over the place at the moment you see 996 for anything from 12k to 29k and 997.1 anything from 18k to 35k It does seem strange, my old 997.1 has just sold through a trader for 8K more than I paid for it 6 yrs ago and with twice the mileage Surprised theres no logic in the market at present. So all you can do is buy the 911 that you prefer whether its a 996 or a 997 and hope the ass doesnt drop out of either model . It seems with the GT and Turbo cars due to recent years huge overinflated pricing theres some price adjustment starting to happen , this may inpart be why we are seeing such a strange market with the Carreras currently . Thumb


Hi Phil.

Interesting comments. Yes, I suppose a bit of loyalty for the 996 in this sub-forum, however the very similar values with this particular 997 having much better mileage, engine, history etc. Than mine prompted me to have a quick check on CAP.

Very tempted myself even if it is in Scotland, however the 'S' just lacks the character that mine has.. Dare I say, it's a bit dull!! Embarassed

I was even thinking if I owned it I would de-badge the rear whereas with my 4S I am reluctant to do so as the branding & rear-end just does look good..
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C4-STORM
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Posts: 626
Location: Hampshire

2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil, I don't think a 997 NB is wider than a 996 4S Dont know

Probs what the drawback is for me, love a nice skinny waste and a fat ass Grin
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6646
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C4-STORM wrote:


Very tempted myself even if it is in Scotland, however the 'S' just lacks the character that mine has.. Dare I say, it's a bit dull!! Embarassed



Have you driven a 997S?
_________________
"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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C4-STORM
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Posts: 626
Location: Hampshire

2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robertb wrote:
C4-STORM wrote:


Very tempted myself even if it is in Scotland, however the 'S' just lacks the character that mine has.. Dare I say, it's a bit dull!! Embarassed



Have you driven a 997S?


Hi mate, no I haven't and I would be surprised if it's not better to drive and let's not forget it's also manual whereas mines a Tip (with paddles!).

I am referring to the look of the car.

Not knocking it at all hence the post.
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14429
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C4-STORM wrote:
Phil, I don't think a 997 NB is wider than a 996 4S Dont know

Probs what the drawback is for me, love a nice skinny waste and a fat ass Grin



No I wasnt saying it was as I really dont know, but I was correcting a post that said the 997.1S was a wide body only for claricication not to be pedantic Thumb

phew lucky for me I only have one of the attributes you love Grin Grin Grin
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14429
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C4-STORM wrote:
Phil 997 wrote:
I guess if you ask for opinions between the 996 and the 997 on the 996 sub forum your going to get slightly biased views Grin I must clarify the 997.1 S isnt a wide body its the 4 and the 4S amongst others are the wide body to accomodate the AWD system. having said that the 997.1 S May be wider than the 996 or even 996 4S but is a narrow body 997 Wink Rolling Eyes dam that sounds confusing Grin I am very surprised at a Hartech rebuilt 3.8 997 at under 25k most are selling in the high 20K's its likely to have tatty bodywork or not a full hartech rebuild or else its just a bargain and someone will grab it quick.
I do agree 996 and 997 prices are all over the place at the moment you see 996 for anything from 12k to 29k and 997.1 anything from 18k to 35k It does seem strange, my old 997.1 has just sold through a trader for 8K more than I paid for it 6 yrs ago and with twice the mileage Surprised theres no logic in the market at present. So all you can do is buy the 911 that you prefer whether its a 996 or a 997 and hope the ass doesnt drop out of either model . It seems with the GT and Turbo cars due to recent years huge overinflated pricing theres some price adjustment starting to happen , this may inpart be why we are seeing such a strange market with the Carreras currently . Thumb


Hi Phil.

Interesting comments. Yes, I suppose a bit of loyalty for the 996 in this sub-forum, however the very similar values with this particular 997 having much better mileage, engine, history etc. Than mine prompted me to have a quick check on CAP.

Very tempted myself even if it is in Scotland, however the 'S' just lacks the character that mine has.. Dare I say, it's a bit dull!! Embarassed

I was even thinking if I owned it I would de-badge the rear whereas with my 4S I am reluctant to do so as the branding & rear-end just does look good..


theres no doubt that the 996 4S badge with the partial cut in S and the red band is bloody lovely and sadly the 997.2 which saw a return of the red band the 996 4S with cut in S just doesnt sit as well as well when added to the 997.2 but the 997.2 4S badge just isnt as nice as the 996 one. maybe why we see so many rebadges as just 911
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C4-STORM
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Posts: 626
Location: Hampshire

2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
C4-STORM wrote:
Phil, I don't think a 997 NB is wider than a 996 4S Dont know

Probs what the drawback is for me, love a nice skinny waste and a fat ass Grin



No I wasnt saying it was as I really dont know, but I was correcting a post that said the 997.1S was a wide body only for claricication not to be pedantic Thumb

phew lucky for me I only have one of the attributes you love Grin Grin Grin


I see what you mean!

Floor Floor
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coullstar
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1264
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is it? PM me if you want.
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C4-STORM
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Posts: 626
Location: Hampshire

2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coullstar wrote:
Where is it? PM me if you want.


Scotland
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coullstar
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1264
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C4-STORM wrote:
coullstar wrote:
Where is it? PM me if you want.


Scotland


It's a big place Laughing . Just wondered if it was near me.
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C4-STORM
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Posts: 626
Location: Hampshire

2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coullstar wrote:
C4-STORM wrote:
coullstar wrote:
Where is it? PM me if you want.


Scotland


It's a big place Laughing . Just wondered if it was near me.


AB21
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Kiwi
Nürburgring


Joined: 02 Jan 2010
Posts: 412
Location: New Zealand


PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over the years we’ve had a 993 cab, 996 cab, a couple of 996 Turbo Coupes, and currently have both a 997.1 C2S cab and 996 C4S. I sold my 993 to get the 996 Turbo, and although the turbo was an amazing car the cost of ownership compared to the 993 was massively higher and started to become frustrating. In hindsight I would have preferred to have kept my 993. Moving on to the 997 which dad has loned me for the past year, I love it and prefer this more than any of the other Porsche’s we’ve had. The 996 C4S is a very close second, it is almost everything the Turbo was without the little voice in the back of ones mind waiting for the next expensive repair or service bill.
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