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Sooty exhaust pipes

Rob6

Active member
Joined
23 Sep 2014
Messages
26
Have a 2007 997 S
As you look at the back, the 2 left hand pipes have sooty build up, the 2 right hand ones have none.
Any ideas?.
Let me down gently if its serious.
 
Very serious. Sounds like you have bore score on your right bank. Will need an engine rebuild pushing towards a 5 figure sum.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Loads of info on here about it. Start with this: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=128713
 
alex yates said:
Very serious. Sounds like you have bore score on your right bank. Will need an engine rebuild pushing towards a 5 figure sum.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Loads of info on here about it. Start with this: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=128713

I am not sure that is letting him down gently, but unfortunately pretty accurate.
I would have gone with, you might be facing a window for upgrade opportunities.
MC
 
Best to rip the plaster off in one swift go.
 
Id taken it a step at a time and go get it checked out with a borescope. But I feel Alex has removed the bandaid off already and this is where your head should be at in terms of potential issues
 
Thanks all - looks like I should get it looked at straight away.

Any ideas why this would happen?
The car has done 99k miles now
I have had it 4 years and been shocked how many times between services i have to top the oil up - was this a sign i should have noticed?
 
Rob6 said:
Thanks all - looks like I should get it looked at straight away.

Any ideas why this would happen?
The car has done 99k miles now
I have had it 4 years and been shocked how many times between services i have to top the oil up - was this a sign i should have noticed?

A ticking time bomb (according to the recognised expert in the field) which can happen any time and any mileage......
 
Probably the most common major issue with the gen 1 997. High oil consumption is a sign, hence the sooty tail pipes. Tips are also more common than manuals as the torpue loaded on the engine setting off in 2nd gear is higher than a manual.
 
Hopefully the 4 yrs you have had it have been fairly low cost other than the oil usage and hopefully you planning on keeping it another four years . It often discussed that these cars cost between 2k and 2.5k pa to look after some get it in drips and drabs other as you and me get it it the way of fairly low costs for a few years then a big hit eg a rebuild. but assuming you have had relatively low motoring then a 10k rebuld will still keep you below the 2/2.5k ave PA for the 8yrs your planning to have the car.
options open to you assuming it is borescore are

repair the damaged cylinders only probably 4 and 6
replace the whole bank 456 with Hartech liners etc these are the weak ones as they dont get the same level of cooling as the other bank.
replace all 6 and get hartech to bullet proof the engine

the good news is Hartech rebuild engines command a premium on resale and depending on what you paid for the car 4 yrs ago you could end up with some of the rebuild cost back on resale. you also wont have suffered the same depreciation as most other marques and my assumption would be that even with the cost of a rebuild you still wouldnt have lost the same money as if you have brought a BMW or similar for what you paid for the 911 and owned it for 4 years.

also worth considering is spending a little extra and get a Hartech 3.9 rebuild

So its not all just bad news and you do have options depending on budget and what you paid for the car v what its worth as a Hartech rebuild either you can do the maths or if you wish to share the info we can help with the maths .

:thumb: :thumb:
 
There are a few other issues that can cause sooty pipes - it's not just borescore, so don't fret unduly just yet. Although you should be prepared for the eventuality - the 3.8 997 is the most affected variant (particularly in tiptronic), some needing rebuilds with half the mileage or less yours has made it to!
 
Another option is to keep driving it, keep topping it up with oil and washing the tail pipes. It does sound like an engine rebuild will be required but not necessarily immediately so enjoy the car while you're deciding what to do longer term.
 
Thanks folks - really appreciated.

I have a couple of questions to the varies posts:
where did the 2/2.5k figure come from - sounds quite high, is this other owners experience as to running costs? You are right about the oil consumption. I usually put in at least 5 litres between annual services, and on occasion I have driven for a while with low levels which made me think I brought this on myself.

Another post mentioned there may be other reasons for the sooty exhaust, but didn't say what they might be?

Also, the car recently passed its MOT. If it was burning oil, and leaving these sooty deposits, would it pass the emissions criteria.
 
Rob6 said:
Thanks folks - really appreciated.

I have a couple of questions to the varies posts:
where did the 2/2.5k figure come from - sounds quite high, is this other owners experience as to running costs? You are right about the oil consumption. I usually put in at least 5 litres between annual services, and on occasion I have driven for a while with low levels which made me think I brought this on myself.

Another post mentioned there may be other reasons for the sooty exhaust, but didn't say what they might be?

Also, the car recently passed its MOT. If it was burning oil, and leaving these sooty deposits, would it pass the emissions criteria.

Hi Rob to answer the question from my post , Yes just as you said it is what seems an ave. pa some will disagree as they have not had a big bill yet and they or the next owner will get it or the previous owner got the bills . but remember these cars are 12/15 yrs old so owners must expect at some point to spend that sort of money. the good thing is these cars dont depreciate like most other marques so the costs end up the same over the years as running a BMW or similar but will the big grin factor that you have driven a 911 for BMW 320 money :grin: :grin: yes we have all assumed its scoring from your description but the only way to know is to get it scoped and also on a durametric/piwis see if its running wrong or anything else that might cause sooty tips only on one bank. Its unfortunate you didnt read the forum long ago as you would have read things like its important to keep the oil levels right and not hoon it over 3k revs until its fully warmed up fit a LTT etc and the other things that can help reduce risks . but on a positive note you will end up with a better car and not lose much money if it does need to go to Hartech.
:thumb:
Heres my example of how things ave out cost wise had a 997.1 for 4.5 years ave cost pa £500 plus one year a/c pipes split engine drop £1000 plus a set of tyres £1000 so that car cost me about £4250 over 4.5 years ,then I brought a 997.2 had it 18 months and in that time the A/C pipes split £1000 the clutch and flywhhel needed replacing £2000 the gearbox needed a rebuild of 2nd and 3rd gears sets and syncros £3000 and a service plus decided to do the coil packs at the same time £500 so 6 yrs of 911 ownership cost so far ave £1792 pa and guess what my bullet proof 997.2 now is at Hartech for a rebuild (cause yet to be confirmed but its either borescore or something broke eg lifter, tappet housing etc and dropped in the engine causing secondry damage to pistons and liners.) I intend to keep the car for another 3 years which will take my 9 yrs of 911 ownership to an ave of £2528 pa. but hopefully what you can see from this example is how the hits come in waves over time. :thumb: :thumb: to mitigate this cost the 997.1 I sold for 3k more than I paid for it hopefully the 997.2 with a hartech rebuild will sell when the times right for a bit more than I paid for it. this is an assumption but assume I get 3k more than I paid for it like the gen1, so I will have spent over 9 years £22,758 If I had brought a BMW 3 series new I would have lost over 9 years at least £25,000 in depreciation therefore my man maths calculator says I will be finacially better off driving a 911 and will have had at least 500% more fun than if I had brought a BMW 320 or similar euro box :grin: :grin: :grin: :thumb:
 
Remember Phil's annual average cost is circa 10 grand :grin: :grin: :grin:
 
spongebob squarepants said:
Remember Phil's annual average cost is circa 10 grand :grin: :grin: :grin:

:floor: :floor: :floor: only if you include the chocolate gen2 and discount the ultra reliable gen1 :floor: :floor:
 

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