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Graeme10W
Newbie


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 3



PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: 997 2S or 4S - .1 full Hartech or .2 Reply with quote

Good afternoon all, having come close but never quite closing on my first 911 over 10 years or so(!!) I’m now looking to get one of the above.

Car will be weekend and holiday use, and ideally for the odd trackday and road trip (maybe both combined). Manual is the only consideration, PDK or auto isn’t for me right at this time.

Last time I had a third car for this need was a very hardcore Caterham - not big power, but a bit of a stripped and spartan car. The relevance here, is the Caterham was in good mechanical fettle, but not mint (or expensive) and therefore relative to a 911 wasn’t a high value car.

I want something to use, and to mitigate any massive costs as much as possible, so I drive the car as a sports car, not an asset to be protected.

So my ideal purchase will be a low entry cost 997.1 S with full Hartech build that doesn’t need an OPC service history. I’d love a .2 but I’m not sure a £40k investment sits well with me for driving hard and parking up without worrying about it.

I’m confident (given I’ve got no pressure to buy) I can get a fully rebuilt .1 the right side of £30k, and I don’t mind investing in suspension refresh, paintwork etc.

Any advice on which way to go, or any private sales coming up greatly welcomed!
 
  
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Maxie
General
General


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 8406
Location: London


PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to 911uk! Given your wishes and needs, it seems that a Gen 1 might be more suitable if indeed you can get hold of a Hartech car. A big bonus would be if you can source one with the Porsche Sports Exhaust (PSE): these sound a whole lot better than the Gen 2 997 PSE systems. And with your budget of £30k, you have a decent choice. My selection would be to find a 2006/7 car (these come with the upgraded intermediate shaft bearing). Anything later will be pushing on towards the Gen 2 and £40k + prices.

Good luck and happy hunting!

~ Maxie thumbsup
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14419
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 997 2S or 4S - .1 full Hartech or .2 Reply with quote

Graeme10W wrote:
Good afternoon all, having come close but never quite closing on my first 911 over 10 years or so(!!) I’m now looking to get one of the above.

Car will be weekend and holiday use, and ideally for the odd trackday and road trip (maybe both combined). Manual is the only consideration, PDK or auto isn’t for me right at this time.

Last time I had a third car for this need was a very hardcore Caterham - not big power, but a bit of a stripped and spartan car. The relevance here, is the Caterham was in good mechanical fettle, but not mint (or expensive) and therefore relative to a 911 wasn’t a high value car.

I want something to use, and to mitigate any massive costs as much as possible, so I drive the car as a sports car, not an asset to be protected.

So my ideal purchase will be a low entry cost 997.1 S with full Hartech build that doesn’t need an OPC service history. I’d love a .2 but I’m not sure a £40k investment sits well with me for driving hard and parking up without worrying about it.

I’m confident (given I’ve got no pressure to buy) I can get a fully rebuilt .1 the right side of £30k, and I don’t mind investing in suspension refresh, paintwork etc.

Any advice on which way to go, or any private sales coming up greatly welcomed!


Graeme, I think your thinking is in the right place , personally if it was me and given we are just going into winter ,I would be buying the cheapest 997.1 I could find maybe a 3.6 or a 3.8 with scoring etc send it to Hartech and get them to do the 3.9 rebuild , you should get that lot for around 30k and will have a bullet proof car thats a conversation piece and the extra grin that comes from a hartech 3.9 engine with all the extra grunt in the low/mid range it would be a great fun car but not so presious your frightened to use it. as your looking at suspension mods it doesnt matter if its a 3.6, infact a 3.6 non PASM car might even work better for you . worth a call to Baz at Hartech and sound him out about costs and anything you should be looking for in the donor car eg he might also say the 3.6 is a better donor car. by doing this you know exactily whats been done and its done to your spec rather than buying a hartech rebuild only to find it wasnt a full rebuild and only one bank of cylinders were replaced etc. Thumb it sounds like a great project and I hope your planning to keep us posted on progress Thumb Thumb
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coullstar
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1250
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a silver 2s for sale up near Edinburgh recently with full Hartech rebuild and aerokit. May have been traded by now though.

http://911uk.com/ads_item.php?id=8569
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14419
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to elaborate a bit on Maxies point if your getting a hartech build done yourself you can use a pre 06 car as Hartech can fit the newer OE IMS as part of the build , this would allow you to get the donor even cheaper and maybe even look for a car thats had IMS or borescore failure and get it mega cheap , but again worth asking Baz first as he may steer you away from an IMS failed car as there may be other expensive componants damaged with a car thats already blown up that they cant reuse in the build Thumb Thumb
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HSC911
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 5514
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome

You are in the right place thumbsup

We'll have you in a car in no time Grin

Thumb
 
  
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Graeme10W
Newbie


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 3



PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for the swift replies! The silver aero car has been traded, I should be getting first viewing when it’s prepped. If I end up with an aero kitted car I’m gonna have to get some folding buckets!

I’ve spoken with Hartech (not Baz though) to see if anything might be a coming up for sale (Baz responded to my PH thread saying a scruffy 3.9 might be available at some point), but the chap I spoke with said they aren’t selling at present and nothing else available.

Hadn’t thought about a broken 3.6 to go to Hartech on my terms, would it be same base as 3.8 to do a 3.9 conversion at same costs? Any detail on what the 3.8 to 3.9 gives you?

I think a lower outlay .1 is best unless a high mile .2 comes up - I was tempted by the white .2 at Harbour cars to see if they would give me 2 year warranty cover, but I think I would be too precious about a £40k plaything.

Do many people run second wheel sets for summer / winter?
 
  
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14419
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graeme10W wrote:
Thanks all for the swift replies! The silver aero car has been traded, I should be getting first viewing when it’s prepped. If I end up with an aero kitted car I’m gonna have to get some folding buckets!

I’ve spoken with Hartech (not Baz though) to see if anything might be a coming up for sale (Baz responded to my PH thread saying a scruffy 3.9 might be available at some point), but the chap I spoke with said they aren’t selling at present and nothing else available.

Hadn’t thought about a broken 3.6 to go to Hartech on my terms, would it be same base as 3.8 to do a 3.9 conversion at same costs? Any detail on what the 3.8 to 3.9 gives you?

I think a lower outlay .1 is best unless a high mile .2 comes up - I was tempted by the white .2 at Harbour cars to see if they would give me 2 year warranty cover, but I think I would be too precious about a £40k plaything.

Do many people run second wheel sets for summer / winter?


Graeme, Baz or Grant at Hartech are honestly the best guys to chat to as they can tell you if the 3.6 or 3.8 uses more of the componants they need for the 3.9 convertion so if it was already on the donor car it would help with the build cost. re what it gives you again Hartech can answer that best but from what I know the improvements in low mid range on the power curve make for a very exiting car to drive.
re winter /summer wheels not sure of the split but based on what I read its about 35% swap 65% run the same all year. but thats due to the mild UK climate very different split in other countries . what I cant tell you is if 34% or the 35% all live north of Watford but my guess is they do. Thumb Thumb
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benbuhagiar
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Dec 2014
Posts: 253
Location: Kent

2008 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graeme10W wrote:


Do many people run second wheel sets for summer / winter?


I bought a used mint set of Porsche alloys with winter tyres for £550 (bargain). It doesn't take a lot to get the back end out in the wet when driving fast. Drive slow and you'll be fine.

£550 to improve safety is a no brainer for me.
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Magic919
Imola


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 866
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve never bothered with winter tyres on the 997.2. Had them for a 996 and wasn’t convinced there was a great need here.
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MaxA
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1265
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're planning to run this as a weekend special and track day car, I think an extra set of lightweight rims with semi slicks makes sense. Some of the track rats run 18s as they claim it’s easier to get tyres; Cup2s are nice but expensive.

As I live in Finland, we need to run winters, but we do have multiple sets of rims for the other cars: ordinary summer tyres for spring and autumn, winters for well, winter, and semi-slicks for the middle of summer and track days. It's easy enough to swap rims with a stud conversion, but the challenge with the 911 is that you can't actually carry a set of 4 rims in the car (maybe you could faff about with two inside and two on the roof, but I've not seen it done). And then there are the days it rains, and you're out on track on summer tyres ...
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Graeme10W
Newbie


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 3



PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaxA wrote:
If you're planning to run this as a weekend special and track day car, I think an extra set of lightweight rims with semi slicks makes sense. Some of the track rats run 18s as they claim it’s easier to get tyres; Cup2s are nice but expensive.

As I live in Finland, we need to run winters, but we do have multiple sets of rims for the other cars: ordinary summer tyres for spring and autumn, winters for well, winter, and semi-slicks for the middle of summer and track days. It's easy enough to swap rims with a stud conversion, but the challenge with the 911 is that you can't actually carry a set of 4 rims in the car (maybe you could faff about with two inside and two on the roof, but I've not seen it done). And then there are the days it rains, and you're out on track on summer tyres ...


I’ll probably only end up doing a couple of days a year, it was more a case of having something like an R888 road legal cut slick for summer and track days, and a set of wheels with a Sport tyre that has a bit of wet grip for winter and autumn. If I booked a trackday I would just put the right wheels on a day or 2 before. I’ve done very wet days at Brands Hatch, Goodwood and Castle Combe on cut slicks in the Caterham - you have to laugh and go with it, but driving home sat in 3 inch puddles with a steamed up visor sucks 😂😂
 
  
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Shaoxter
Imola


Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 815



PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a resale perspective, I'd say a 997.2 is a better bet than a rebuilt 997.1. When you come to sell it on, your average punter will probably have no idea who Hartech are and will steer clear of a car that's had a blown engine in the past.

So although your initial outlay may be a bit more, with a 997.2 you're getting a newer car, newer PCM, more powerful engine and a lot more examples to choose from. Lack of noise is easily sorted with a Sharkwerks/H&S centre silencer bypass.

Never understood the need for winter tyres, especially if it's a second/third car. I've done track days in the winter/rain no problem.
 
  
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