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3 PPIs and not a single decent car

Jackzi

Well-known member
Joined
30 Aug 2015
Messages
145
I've been hard at work over the last year. Or better said: my mechanics have.

I've been looking for a 996 and had three cars inspected. I had to walk away from each one.

I won't go into the issues with them specifically, but they ranged from a general lack of maintenance and loads of things that didn't work, pushing the agreed price of a car up by several thousand pounds, to an oil leak that could have possibly led to an engine strip and rebuild.

One was a targa and two were Carrera 4S.

And those were just the ones I had inspected. There were several others I looked at that didn't make the cut.

I'll admit that I might not have looked at every single car that would have fit the bill since sometimes it's hard to find the time to coordinate with owners, meet up, drive cars, do inspections, etc.

And maybe I'm picky, too. But shouldn't you be allowed to be picky if you're spending 20,000 pounds on a car you intend to keep until it doesn't want to drive anymore?

Long story short: does anyone here have a good car, or know of someone who has a good one for sale?

I'd like a manual C4S with less than around 80k miles. My absolute maximum is £21k. I'd also consider a C2/4 or targa (if the roof still works) for less than that figure.

Yes, I know the C4S is the more desirable 996. And I know that lower mileage ones are on the market starting around £25k or more.

So in the spirit of 'you get what you pay for' I had a look at the more expensive ones to prove to myself that my budget shouldn't actually be able to stretch to a 4S.

I assumed they'd be miles better than the cheaper ones. They weren't.

I had the feeling several grand of '4S tax' was tacked onto cars that didn't have much in terms of mechanical substance underneath.

In various discussions with specialists and people on here, I figure that 20k is top money for a 996 and bottom end for a 997. The market may well be converging or leapfrogging though. And I've also heard that the market for 996 is levelling off and actually dropping a bit at the moment.

So surely it shouldn't be that hard to get a good 996 for that?

Or should I give up and get a Cayman or an E92 M3?
 
Hi Jackzi
I spent over two years looking, had a few ppi that like you were walk aways,
Eventually took a punt and dropped lucky. Now 3 years in, and having spent a few quid on the usual steering and suspension bits, major & minor services am very happy.
As regard current pricing, which is a regular topic on here, it depends where you look there are prices across the spectrum
Keep looking yours is out there :thumb:
 
Maybe you're looking in the wrong places. Have you checked out any of the cars for sale on here?
 
:agree: with what he said

Also - I ended up splitting my budget knowing I would have to address serious issues if I bought at the bottom. You have £20k to play with - buy one for £7500 and spent £12 doing a rebuild and the rest is wear-and-tear which you'd need to cover anyway and you're still in under budget.
 
Hi Jackzi, this is all reminiscent of the 964 forums 7 or 8 years ago.

In short though yes £20k should get you a very good 996 but they are 20 years old so are far from new.

You will never find a 20 year old 911 that needs nothing after you buy it. I'd always budget on at least another £1000 after purchase, even on a great car.
Little things like new floor mats are £100, caliper refurb can be £500 if they have any chips in them, wheel refurb if you want them to be flawless, new centre caps, etc. Just daft things that add up and that's before you even get into making it mechanically perfect.

You'll get a good 911 for £15k-£16k. A perfect one will be way more.
As an example, a good one may be on its original suspension. It may drive ok with no strange noises or handling quirks but to be perfect will need a refresh.
Even using factory M030 for about a grand plus the other dog bones, coffin arms, fork arms etc, you into £1500-£2000.
And that isn't even the best gear by any stretch.

So who pays for that? The previous owner who you then want to pay a reasonable amount to for the car or yourself after purchase?

Not saying you want to have your cake and eat it but I'm pretty sure I could find a decent car within few months, certainly within a year.

I paid £13k for my car and could have run it on a shoe string with just minor services in the last 2 years I've owned it. Instead I've spent probably in the region of £10k making it a 9 out of 10 car, rather than the 7 out of 10 car it was when I bought it.

These cars aren't for owners who want low maintenance bills or no tinkering.
They're more of a hobby than a simple means of hassle free transport.
:thumb:

Ps I've just realised you mean £20k for a C4S! :eek:
2012 has just called and it wants its prices back.
:grin:

I think an E92 may be easier....
 
This is de ja vu.
I was in the same position about 4 years ago. Spent months trying to find my ideal spec car only to be disappointed with everyone I saw. My budget was half yours but prices were reasonable then with plenty of choice at the £10K mark privately and £12K at ordinary non specialist dealers.

Once I was more open to other cars without my dream spec I did start to come across some better cars but, as has been said, some 996's are (or are approaching) 20 years old and they'll need stuff doing which can easily eat into £5-7K depending on what's required.

Nearly a year after starting my search and having seen a lot of ropey poorly described 996's I took the plunge and secured my early 996 C2. In the following 3 years I've spent the purchase price, and some, getting it up to scratch mechanically, this includes the servicing and consumables which are unavoidable. Apart from a wheel refurb as the front tyres wouldn't hold their pressure, I haven't undertaken any cosmetic work so I could lose another couple of grand or so doing some paintwork, seat and steering wheel refrub etc.

With the recent rise in popularity of the 996 it may be some people think their tired cars should be worth more but all the great sounding cars I called up about back in 2014/5 were either sold immediately or were simply not as described.

Having spent nearly £20,000 acquiring my 996 and fettling it over time I probably should have just upped my budget and gone straight to a reputable indy Porsche dealer and bought an A1 car but these cars are more than just a mode of transport they really are a hobby and I've loved doing some stuff to the car with my local independent garage doing the bigger/major jobs.

There'll definitely be average cars out there for sale but the really good cars will be a premium, but are usually snapped up. Maybe worth weighing up what you are prepared to spend to bring an average car up to scratch or review the budget, especially for a decent 4S.
 
Sub 80k miles, manual C4S for under £21k - optimistic to say the least!

Regarding the "C4S tax" sadly if you want the C4S looks you need to pay for it - it's not the same as comparing a Mondeo Zetec to a Mondeo Titanium X. The C4S with its Turbo body, wheels, suspension, brakes etc really does set it apart from the rest of the 996 range!

An interesting read, though. Sadly, my 65k mile C4S doesn't meet your criteria (it sailed through its inspection at Brooklands Porsche about 100 miles ago but it's a Tip S and not cheap enough). It's listed here at £23.5k which I think, based on what you've seen, is possibly too cheap. Although I've not had a single call on it (just ongoing texts from someone who needs to sort out his finances and get out of his current pcp car)

So, based on the cr@p you've seen I think I'll put the price up - I sold one car just last week after putting the price up!! :D
 
As said above several times - £21k isn't enough, hence the problem. Either stop wasting your time and money trying to find a "bargain", up your budget or as you suggest, buy something else.

The 996 has been a bargain basement 911 for a long time and so the vast majority have been run on a shoestring, hence the challenge of finding one that has been looked after by an enthusiast who didn't/doesn't mind spending money on it to keep it tip top.

There seems to be a general slowing of the market and the 996 is no exception. However, really good enthusiast owned cars will always be in demand and sell for a premium.

Good luck! :thumb:
 
Going into this with my eyes open, I realise getting a 996 is not a 'buy and forget' proposition (in terms of maintenance and, thankfully, in terms of the driving experience).

Part of the pleasure of ownership comes from knowing these cars (and their foibles) well and also being on forums like here.

I'm prepared to invest some money in keeping a 15+ year car in good order.

But I'd rather do that over time (as you've all described), rather then being presented with a bill for an engine-out rear brake pipe replacement immediately after purchase, for example.

In terms of 4S prices, I looked at a few (online, admittedly) back in 2013 at around the 16-17k mark. Now there are several at around 25. That's an increase of around 40%. Well done to all of you who bought back then.

But then again, I've looked at a few cars advertised online recently that started off at the 25k+ mark and then quickly dropped to around 20/21. The two owners who I spoke to admitted they had no interest at the higher price apart from dealers offering 18.

(I like your 4S Squelch. Nice colour combo. Tip isn't for me though)
 
Oh and +/- 20k is for a 996 in general.

I'd love a 4S, yes. But I've encountered the issues above with 'regular' Carreras and targas as well.
 
Jackzi said:
Going into this with my eyes open, I realise getting a 996 is not a 'buy and forget' proposition (in terms of maintenance and, thankfully, in terms of the driving experience).

Part of the pleasure of ownership comes from knowing these cars (and their foibles) well and also being on forums like here.

I'm prepared to invest some money in keeping a 15+ year car in good order.

But I'd rather do that over time (as you've all described), rather then being presented with a bill for an engine-out rear brake pipe replacement immediately after purchase, for example.

Your experience doesn't surprise me in the slightest. A few indys I speak to from time to time also remark there are a lot of dog-eared tatty examples out there - but they are happy as its a regular stream of work (income) for them and keeps them in a job. Their take is that the prices of these cars a few years back were at all time low which meant a pool of buyers who could afford to buy but then struggled to maintain them in tip-top condition. Ask an indy and he'll likely tell you that whenever they have a car on the ramp, many have 'advisories' that can be a thousand to several thousand pounds of extra work on top of a service and that many don't take up the advisory work on budget grounds. Then there is the following year's service and the same guys have done some of the fixes as DIY but left some un-touched and another raft of advisories are added to the prior list of untouched advisories. Before long the car owner decides to unload the car and a PPI reveals all.

So be patient and persevere. If the BMW E92 appeals, then seriously consider that and move away from Porsche. I have no idea what the BMW market is doing as I dont speak to any BMW indys, but it cant be any worse than Porsche 996's can it?
 
As others have said when buying a car like this i'd suggest ditching the search for a unicorn clean bargain. You are better off paying normal/strong money or at least opening yourself up to looking at such cars. With an old 996 the purchase price will be fairly insignificant after a few services against the cost of buying a cheaper car which needs work.

I over paid on my 996T. 6 years later she has been very good to me and needed very little outside of the consumable list (I class coffin arms/radiators etc.. as consumables on a car like this!). Hand on heart best purchase i've made
 
Mine's still available... :whistle:
 
I bought my 4S the end of last year, it was rough at a reasonable price but high mileage. It does need a lot of work - but I enjoy researching and improving the car.

I bought based on colour and trim level, given not many around I really wanted black with grey leather and a carbon interior trim pack which is what I got.

Whatever you decide good luck :thumb:
 

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