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murph7355
Newbie


Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:07 am    Post subject: Mileage Warriors Reply with quote

Possibly an unwelcome oft repeated topic (I did search!) so happy to take pelters...

Who has the most mileage on their 997 (esp gen2) and how well do they stand it?

I've looked closely at a 70k+ mile car and it looked rock solid (save for cosmetic issues)... But didn't drive it.

Also, what mileage break points do you think impact values and by how much (assuming "condition" is equal)? 20k mile chunks? Thoughts on cars that are over 60k miles? (Especially spongebob!).

I'm not bothered from a milometer perspective especially - whatever I buy will get used without a further eye on resale. But don't want to over pay so am curious as to whether my targets are reasonable Smile

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PanozGTR
Newbie


Joined: 05 Jul 2017
Posts: 49
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Murph
I have a 997.2 C2S with 77000 miles on the clock. I purchased it last July with 67000 on the clock. It's been my daily driver and has run like clock work with no issues other than a track rod end needing replacing and moisture in the rear lights. Both of these issues were picked up in the PPI check before purchase and rectified via OPC Warranty. I purchased the car privately with 7 months of transferable Warranty and as mentioned got the car checked out prior to handing over any cash, so was confident that the car is good. Despite the mileage the car drives like new and handles superbly. These cars are designed to be driven, not sat in a garage so what does it matter if the car has a few miles on it if it has been looked after.
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Phil 997
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 12886
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morning mate, my 2009 gen2 has 62k on the clock 12K of which was me in the past 12months
I needed a new clutch and coolant hoses in the last year.the clutch at 60k I considered quite normal the hoses were not leaking but were misting and were done as a preventative and it had a major service.

Its just gone in for a gearbox rebuild as I lost 3rd gear synchro but I consider that just to be unfortunate and not a failing of the marque .

other than those things the car is great and yes I will have spent 5k in the past 6 months on it but expect nothing else much to happen over the next 12/18 months which will bring the ave running cost PA back down to acceptable.

I kind of expect to spend a bit on a car in the first 12 months of ownership as you dont always know what a previous owner has or hasnt done.

in contrast I had the 2006 gen1 tip for 4 years and added 50k miles of its 89k miles when I sold it and in all that time it didnt cost me 5k in repairs etc.

the accepted ave mileage for a 911 is 7k PA this is the mileage used by enthusiasts to guage if a cars mileage is high , ave, low etc. so if the gen2 your looking at is a 2009 then 70k would be more or less ave.

Like you I dont worry about residual values as I brought the car for me to enjoy and it will be worth what its worth when I sell it. these cars do enjoy low depreciation.
as they say who doesnt have sex with their girlfriend so shes ready for the next guy Floor

just a heads up its also widely accepted that very low milage cars are as much of a risk as very high mileage cars as these cars like to be driven and garage queens seem to suffer more issues than regularly driven cars.

IMO a car thats done between 5k and 7k pa would be the optimum but you shouldnt be put off a car thats done 8k/10k pa as long as its reflected in the price

keep us posted on your search Thumb
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Last edited by Phil 997 on Wed May 16, 2018 7:48 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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FZP
Kyalami


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 1893
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've changed my view on German cars and mileage after having a good look underneath our 2010 Audi A6 Estate with 125k on the clock. My wife drives it daily and doesn't get babies like my 911. Underneath the car looks brand new with no signs of wear and tear on the body.
In fact I've just spent 1.5hrs in it and it still drives like a new car.
So given that the 911 is a better engineered car I am less inclined to worry about mileage and be more concerned about actual condition. Suspension seems to be the biggest consumable in the 997.2 as mileage increases.
Solid cars from what I can tell
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MaxA
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1036
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is always so much sucking of teeth when it comes to mileage.

But unless you have seen how it is driven, then the miles don't give you the full story. There is such a difference between cars driven at length on the motorway, and those run around town. It would say that the key metrics are the number of cold starts, the number of hot starts, the warm up (if any), the engine running hours and the revs (and overrevs) at those hours.

And without a very full history (one which records the condition of the oil removed), you will never know, so the best thing is to buy on condition, with the best history available, from an enthusiast who can afford to run the car (I like buying from old guys with collections, as they drive the cars occasionally, they drive them hard, they stash them in a garage, they don't usually crash them, they keep the paperwork and they spend lots on maintenance).

One day, when I'm old and decrepit, in about 40, 45 years, and I can't actually get in the car anymore, some lucky bloke/blokette can buy the 911.
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13133
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No correlation between mileage and condition with most cars.
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benbuhagiar
Silverstone


Joined: 28 Dec 2014
Posts: 121
Location: Kent

2008 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently bought a 2008 997.2 with 66k miles and felt a solid car. Without looking at the odeometer and number plate, you would think it was a nearly new car.
 
  
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jotaking
Montreal


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 555



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think any cars value will suffer when they hit the 100K glass ceiling. That's just the way it is. Prior to the 100K, using my man maths, “Miles to Pounds” M+ = -£. So, for every 1000 miles deduct £1000.

All turbos (except the latest generation) are a pretty good bet against eye-watering depreciation. Therefore, wherever you decide to enter the market, you’re not going to lose 10K per year as you would on a Merc E class.
 
  
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13133
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every 1000 deduct a grand? Think you've got that wrong.

As for 100k miles, that's barely run in these days.
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HSC911
Reims


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 4306
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are not worried about mileage then I'd go see that silver 997 Turbo on eBay with 106k on it, it's only up for £40k Surprised

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jotaking
Montreal


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 555



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
Every 1000 deduct a grand? Think you've got that wrong.

As for 100k miles, that's barely run in these days.


My man maths is based on the current 997 turbo market, in particular looking at the top end with low miles and the bottom end with high miles. If you're considering buying one at the moment then I think it is a good rule of thumb.

I agree, 100k on these cars is nothing, however, there is and always will be a stigma around the 100k miles. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they plummet in value, but there is an adjustment.
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 13907
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jotaking wrote:


My man maths is based on the current 997 turbo market, in particular looking at the top end with low miles and the bottom end with high miles. If you're considering buying one at the moment then I think it is a good rule of thumb.



Confused

What values are you working on for 'top end, low miles' and 'low end, high miles'?

I used your formula and assumed that a 30k mile car was valued at £65k. I can't see any 95k mile cars being given away for free. Sad
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13133
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he meant Lira.
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jotaking
Montreal


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 555



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:


What values are you working on for 'top end, low miles' and 'low end, high miles'?

I used your formula and assumed that a 30k mile car was valued at £65k. I can't see any 95k mile cars being given away for free. Sad


50k Miles circa £60K
10k Miles circa £80-90k
0 -100 Miles circa £100K

I did say a rule of thumb puh
 
  
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Counter Of Beans
Newbie


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 14
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just bought a 911, so can offer a "did mileage affect my choice?" perspective. In short, yes it did, very much. I didn't even bother looking at cars with over 70k miles (was after a 2009-11 gen 2 997). My reasoning was that if I kept the car for long, it would soon be at or over 100k miles, and would then explode in a ball of fire. Just joking!! I know well maintained cars can go on way beyond that. It's just that, in the UK, once you get to 100k many buyers won't touch the car - and resale value is important to me.
Equally, cars with, say 20k miles or fewer were silly money. I bought a 2011 car with 33k on it which I'm happy with.
Now, if I knew a car's history (how was it driven, was it looked after properly, regular oil changes, all that) mileage would be less of an issue. But you never do, really, do you? Is a 2011 80k car with oil changes every 10k better than a 50k car that's only had three oil changes? What if the 50k car's driver is a buffoon with no mechanical sympathy?
In other words, it's always a gamble, but the lower the mileage, the lower the risk, all things being equal. Just my 2p's worth.
 
  
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13133
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mileage, oil changes, grade of oil, servicing, ltts, over revs and every other life prolonging process mean diddly squat if the any previous owner screwed it when cold and rev'd the nuts off it on start-up.

Hence some members (self included) constantly hark condition, condition, condition.
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Phil 997
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 12886
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5K PA is the min I would want as less than that and it will have spent too much time standing idle and thats worse than high miles IMO

I am not totally sure the magic 100k is so applicable nowadays as we are seeing 996 cars due to age even with ave mileage going over 100k and still commanding high teens early 20k money , so the assumption must be that the 997 will follow that trend and even more so as its widely accepted that the new 991/992 cars are more of a tourer than a sports car so the 996 and 997 may be the last of the smaller sports car 911s with a proper power plant.
the 991 will be the last 911 with a proper power plant but built more as a tourer .
the only exception to this will be the GTcars.

only time will tell which argument will be the correct one though .

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Kingb4
Monza


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 182
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with much that has been posted above - condition is key. Having looked at lots recently, before I bought mine, I can confirm that mileage and condition doesn't always correlate. I bought a car with 80k on the clock, but it was in better condition than the rest I saw (typically 50k+ cars - as my budget didnt stretch far enough for 'low mileage')

My thoughts on the OPs question about mileage and value is that its not quite a cliff-edge. I think that there are subtle points that can impact on value (dependent on the car). For two reasons:
1) Psychological - whilst cars now seem to be built to last (galvanised etc), i can remember when a 80K+ car was a high miler.... People hold on to this.
2) I think a lot of people use search filters when buying cars, which means that once you tip over a threshold, you may no longer be in as many search results. Less demand will drive the price lower still.

One thing I like about an 80k car is I dont worry about putting miles on it....especially as its a keeper. Very Happy
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Last edited by Kingb4 on Wed May 16, 2018 4:45 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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murph7355
Newbie


Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all.

Will see where I get to in terms of an offer.
 
  
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Magic919
Montreal


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 611
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we are talking Gen 2 Carrera models, then interest drops off as they hit 40/50/60k as the low mileage buyers turn away. Prices seem to be increasingly affected for 70/80k and above cars, but it’s fair to say some of that is due to condition of a proportion of those cars.

I don’t mind buying low miles cars when they are still young. I get more wary as they get older as it can bring its own problems.

Five years of so in, at about 50k miles the discs seem to be hitting the wear limit. Suspension related wear seems more apparent too.

Getting a bit sick of paying to keep the windows going up and down, but I’m not sure that’s just a Gen 2 malady. I’d probably avoid early cars if I was doing it again now.
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