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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 14490
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah - MINT!
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HSC911
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 5731
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noone, EVER! wrote:
Who said getting married was a good idea! Floor


Grin
 
  
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Cameltoe & Heel
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1205
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're repairing then I'd highly recommend you get the car onto a jig, chassis legs may look ok to the eye but can be pushed out, your A pillar will also require pulling back accurately to within tolerance.

I'd be very surprised if your car doesn't get a Categorisation if the A pillar has been damaged.

I think this shows how cars can be damaged and repaired without categorisation.

Ultimately impossible to completely know what you're buying.

I know of a story where a brand new car (Audi) was delivered but fell off the truck, causing significant damage, car was not recorded, repaired and sold as new.

So even new cars are not COMPLETEY guaranteed not to have had issues prior to your ownership.

Trev
 
  
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maph
Monza


Joined: 01 Feb 2017
Posts: 151



PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cameltoe & Heel wrote:


I know of a story where a brand new car (Audi) was delivered but fell off the truck, causing significant damage, car was not recorded, repaired and sold as new.

So even new cars are not COMPLETEY guaranteed not to have had issues prior to your ownership.



+1

Off topic but when I was a student I worked a couple of summers at the local docks at a car importer. They had a body shop that replaced lots of panels and used a lot of filler on new cars, then shipped out to dealers.

Worst I saw was a Fiat that fell off a transporter and had a new roof skin and other body panels replaced before shipping out as new to the dealer.

Cars were ranted off the ships and around the docks and nice/ quick stuff was abused. Subaru Impreza's for example were redlined everywhere with 10 miles on the clock. When they reached the dealers AFAIK they were plugged in and restricted to lower rev limit up until their first oil change.

If I ever bought a new car I would insist on a factory collection!
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wasz
Magny-Cours


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2643


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shame about this.

Not sure where you stand on value if you had a valuation agreed but not updated. They might be within contract to just pay the agreed.

However general practice is to reject their first offer at least, print of ads of similar age/mileage/condition cars as evidence.

Usually I would be tempted to buy back and repair myself, especially if you plan to keep the car. For me the sums involved here are a bit risky unless you can buy the car back for peanuts (i.e. add up the salvage cost of the engine, gearbox and a few other expensive bits you could sell very easily to get to a price).

Negotiate any buy back after you have agreed a payout...don't let them take the car away if you intend to do this as it will be taken straight to auction.
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johnty1
Trainee


Joined: 12 May 2016
Posts: 70
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endoman wrote:

Ninemeister did mine a while ago sprayed by Neil (who is now elsewhere but I have his number, he tracks a GT3RS)


If it's of any assistance, I can vouch for the quality of the guy Endoman mentioned. His name is Neil Rainger, currently based in Knowsley.

Top quality work at a much lower price than R&R. I have his number if you want to follow up on it...
 
  
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wozy
Österreich


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 880
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

penelson wrote:
I will explore these possibilities.

It’s definitely a Insurance valuation on the repairs. Quote is £30k from R and R. I will talk to them on the parts list.

Damage has not affected the front chassis legs but everything and the AC etc under the wing as gone and the A pillar is pushed back slightly but the door still opens and closes. I have had the car in bits myself and know what’s involved to get it right again. I was expecting around £20k with Max £25k to repair.

I would be happy for used parts to be used and even happy to some extent as it shouldn’t look too new. Age is character.

Current offer is 55k but whilst a year ago that could of got you something there is nothing decent for that now!

Thanks for all the help people! Alex knows the condition of the car as he’s seen her.

Who said getting married was a good idea! Floor


I dont understand this ....... they offer to pay out 55K but won’t fix it at a cost of 30K?

When I pranged my 964 years ago, when a gud un like mine was worth £12.5k, the repair cost was 11K, but they still repaired it Smile
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993 C2. MBM. C4 mounts, RSRs, RS Short shifter. RS steering wheel. FSDs & M033s
Previous 2.7S, 3.2, 964 and 968CS
 
  
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penelson
Silverstone


Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 131
Location: Lancashire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please give me Neil's contact info and I will have a chat to him.
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penelson
Silverstone


Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 131
Location: Lancashire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contacted Neil and waiting for his estimate. Fingers crossed!
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3750



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R&R will not use anything other than Porsche-supplied new parts. So using used parts with them is out of the question.

The guide insurers generally use for a total loss is if repair costs hit around 55-65% of the car's valuation they will declare it a total loss. You are on the edge of the lower limit of that figure (£30k repair v £55k value).

You can remove the car from R&R and explore elsewhere - after paying R&R's charges for the investigation and liaison they have done so far and preparing the assessment of damages report for the insurer - you will need to pay it as it is unlikely to be paid by the insurer if you are not having the car repaired by R&R. The insurer will only pay one charge from whoever you do decide to have it repaired with - whether its a total loss or they agree to authorize repairs - they will pay that repairer all fees minus your excess.

IF you decide to accept a total loss, unless you have a specialist policy with the likes of Locktons, the car becomes the property of the insurer.

So the scenario that you might be able to take the total loss value and then have it repaired from own pocket goes out the window.

If you have a Lockton-type (specialist) policy you could take the crash damaged vehicle in exchange for a 10% reduction in the agreed or market valuation of the car being paid out to you. If its not got such a clause in the event of a total loss, the scrap car becomes the property of the insurer to dispose off. If you know who they sell it to, you could take your total loss payment and then buy it back from the purchaser + his mark-up on the purchase price (he's never going to sell it back to you at the price he paid for it). Alternatively, you could commission him to repair it and use the total loss payment to buy the repaired vehicle back from him - but the total loss status will be registered at DVLA - a consideration when you come to sell it.

Agreed valuation carries a risk if the valuation falls or rises. If it falls, you are quids in as there is no dispute - contractually they cannot lower the total loss payment arguing that prices have gone down and the cost to put you back to where you were prior to the loss is less than the agreed value.

Conversely, you will not be able to argue that to put you back to where you were prior to the loss requires more than that agreed valuation. That's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. So I think the total loss payment will not exceed the agreed valuation.

In hindsight there may be grounds to have opted for "market valuation" and submit examples of replacement cars at higher price than what they are considering as the total loss value. But the wonder of hindsight is that it is a wonderful thing.

With the agreed valuation, one year I had to re-submit the valuation on my vehicle mid-year on a fast rising market to avoid being out-of-pocket in a rising market. Additionally, I have the valuation carried out annually (never leaving it for the validity of the 2 years that my insurance company gives).

I feel sad for the situation that you are in. Repairing it entirely out of pocket with a combination of used and new parts remains an option for you. But as its reported to the insurance, is there likely to be any trace of the severity of the damage prior to repair and what impact might that have on resale price when you come to dispose of the vehicle repaired with used parts?

Prima facie you might be looking at any range of options but anything that involves the current insurer points in the direction of a total loss. R&R can try to persuade them but in the end it is they, your insurer that decide whether to repair or write off.
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johne
Monza


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 161



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: accident where to repair Reply with quote

if you luv this car and you are going to keep it. get the car back .I'm sure you can find some one to sort it . I probably have a couple of numbers .I wouldn't have a problem using second hand parts and they can be found .many years ago I had a 964 rs which had 2 big accidents at spa .it sold a few years for £165,000 unfortunately not by me .good luck
 
  
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asterix_the_gaul
Suzuka


Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 1136
Location: Cheshire

1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A garage totalled my 993, I specified a repairer who did a great job, ninemeister, but screwed me over by verbally quoting one thing then when the job was finally finished presenting me with a whacking great bill for the extras after I provided a whole bunch of parts which were supposed to more or less pay for spraying the extra panel rear bumper, mirrors and a few dents. Lesson: especially if you are doing deals and supply used parts etc. Get quotes in writing don't trust people's word.
Mine needed jigging too.
A fixed 993 like this is going to be worth significantly less than a straight original one, even if not written off. don't kid yourself no-one would be able to tell, any dealer or ppi should pick up such a repair very easily.
A good pay out would get you into a really good modern Porsche or something else : I sold my 993 before they started going really silly but used the money on an e46 m3 and a 996 so scratched some good itches and not really regretted it as beautiful as 993s are..
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Cameltoe & Heel
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1205
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with above, there's nothing difficult about working on a 993, they're very repairable vehicles as they're built so well, complexity is not an issue, there's nothing that special about them that means only highly qualified experts can work on them, but it has to be done right.

If you're paying yourself (like I have) it can be done within a reasonable budget especially if you can do a lot of the work yourself.

I have paid for new parts rather than second hand (over time I might add). That said I would say I've spent 50% of my money on fixing damage and 50% on bringing her right up to snuff, there's always stuff to do whilst you're in there, particularly if you see the car as a long termer.

If you love that car get it back, it can be repaired no doubt.

Trev
 
  
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3750



PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asterix_the_gaul wrote:
A garage totalled my 993, I specified a repairer who did a great job, ninemeister, but screwed me over by verbally quoting one thing then when the job was finally finished presenting me with a whacking great bill for the extras after I provided a whole bunch of parts which were supposed to more or less pay for spraying the extra panel rear bumper, mirrors and a few dents. Lesson: especially if you are doing deals and supply used parts etc. Get quotes in writing don't trust people's word.
Mine needed jigging too.
A fixed 993 like this is going to be worth significantly less than a straight original one, even if not written off. don't kid yourself no-one would be able to tell, any dealer or ppi should pick up such a repair very easily.
A good pay out would get you into a really good modern Porsche or something else : I sold my 993 before they started going really silly but used the money on an e46 m3 and a 996 so scratched some good itches and not really regretted it as beautiful as 993s are..



^^^ Wise words! Accepting a total loss leaving you with £55k in the bank certainly looks attractive in the context of the above contribution.
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 14490
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You obviously haven't seen or heard his 993. It'd be like like tou having £25k in the bank and no 996 Turbo.
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3750



PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP: I hope the matter has now been resolved - one way or the other.
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 14490
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Peter,

How did you get on with this?
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penelson
Silverstone


Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 131
Location: Lancashire


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex, eventually after battling the insurance for months the car has been saved with no markers or categories and after only 2 weeks of work starting is well on the way to being good as new. Just shows never give up with the old insurance guys!

Once started there was much less work to do than originally thought. It's having a full respray and some other little bits and bobs whilst its there.

Road and race are working on the car and are doing an amazing job with my very high levels of attention to detail and outstanding workmanship. I drop in to see progress nearly every week and am never unwelcome and every detail is shared. Its how it should be, I wish more companies were like this.

They have other 993's in at the moment for screen area repairs involving welding and mine has needed none of this so it was definitely not for the scrap heap!

It may not have been the best financial decision but I don't regret it!

Roll on 2019 and hopefully a nice summer Very Happy
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 14490
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thumbsup

That's excellent news mate!! Look forward to seeing it in the new year.

Insurance companies are always a pain, but like you've proved, keep at 'em until you get your result. R&R did an amazing job of a friends Cayman after his was seriously damaged in a serious collision. When it came back it looked better than before the accident. It's definitely with the right guys.

All's well that ends well Smile
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Cameltoe & Heel
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1205
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great news, we'll have to have a Lancs meet up next year?, there's a good few of us now Smile

Trev
 
  
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