Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:47 pm Post subject: 993 HIDs and the New MOT Regulations
All,
On the basis that I would think 99% of our 993's are running HID's of varying types (mine are from ToreB, as per a lot of you).
What are people's thoughts on the latest MOT regulations that come in in May 2018.
Extract from the Test manual:
Some vehicles may be fitted with High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps. It is not permitted to
convert existing halogen headlamp units for use with HID bulbs. If it is clear that such a conversion has
been carried out, rather than replacing the entire unit with one designed and approved for use with HID
bulbs, the headlamp should be rejected.
On the basis that assuming you are using ToreB's kit inside the headlight housing, I assume MOT testers wouldn't be able to take out the headlight and open up the back plate, they would have to assume that they are standard?? Is there any other way they could identify as halogen headlights, and therefore fail?
Thoughts welcome (although I'll have a year before it is a problem as MOT due in April)
Rob _________________ Rob
'94 C2 Iris Blue (+ White Stripes!) Cup 2's, Big Ovals, FSD's/Eibach, OMP Strut Brace, 200 Cell Powerspeed Cats, 1.75" Hollamby Exhaust bypass, Carnewal FPB.
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asterix_the_gaul Barcelona
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1262 Location: Cheshire
Don't think it's going to be an issue given balast not generally on show and headlights are projectors and have washers. No mot tester is going to start dismantling the headlights to check, they simply don't have the time. I guess it will all depend on how seriously the particular tester takes it, they have deniability if it's not obvious and they generally don't want to fail cars that are safe, the 996 crowd who have fitted hid to the reflector headlamps might be more at risk as its far more obvious they are retrofitted. _________________ 1992 944 S2 Cabriolet, Cobalt Blue/Classic grey -gone!
1995 993 C2 Cabriolet, Midnight Blue/Marble grey -gone!
1999 996 C2 Coupe, Ocean Blue/Graphite grey
2002 E46 M3 Cabriolet, Laguna seca blue/LSB
AP90 Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 25 Sep 2004 Posts: 356 Location: Cornwall UK
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:05 pm Post subject:
Just what we need in the UK..............more laws and regulation.......
an interesting question, which needs some input from all.
To make an assumption, if the HID Ballast is inside the headlamp unit then you would probably be ok.
Can't recall if the factory HID unit had a deeper rear panel and thus allow the HID ballast to be attached to it.
Units where the HID ballasts are wired into the unit and stored outside of the headlamp unit are going to be a potential issue.
Since Porsche did have an OEM Xenon (Litonics) option for the 993, there is a potential solution for this, as long as the unit mirrors the OEM headlamp. _________________ Get a Porsche Car Insurance Quote
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Zingari Donnington
Joined: 25 Oct 2009 Posts: 12747 Location: Cheshire
Just what we need in the UK..............more laws and regulation.......
It's a conspiracy by the Government to get more diesel cars off the road as the low VED cost is a missed opportunity that's gone on too long. Petrol cars will get wrapped up in it
Smoke (and mirrors) = MOT failure _________________ Alfa Romeo’s 4C is everything a Italian sports-car should be: it’s gorgeous to the point of pornography, distinctive enough that nobody will ever mistake it for a Porsche, handles like it’s on rails and steers like a kart.
kerb scraper Nürburgring
Joined: 25 May 2012 Posts: 395 Location: Hertfordshire
Unfortunately no aftermarket HID kit is strictly road legal as you are changing the lighting system (from halogen to gas discharge) in your car and for this reason the bulbs can't be E marked which is a legal requirement. You also won't have the self leveling and washer systems installed which is also a legal requirement for HID and without these installed the kit would be an MOT failure. HID kits are plug and play so they are easy to remove and replace with standard bulbs come MOT time.
Does seem daft that in the case of Tore's kit it is illegal considering the non dazzling nature and improvement of vision for the driver. _________________ 1997 C4 Cabriolet, Arctic Silver, black interior, 18" hollow spokes, Bilstein PSS10s, RSRs, 200 cell cats, Mobil 1 sticker, LED to interior. Bergville t-lights.
AP90 Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 25 Sep 2004 Posts: 356 Location: Cornwall UK
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:05 pm Post subject:
Ok, is there a way round this via and LED projector system
ToreB Approved Trader
Joined: 13 May 2010 Posts: 579 Location: Oslo, Norway
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:08 pm Post subject:
The original 993 Litronic HID lamps never had self-leveling, this was a requirement that was introduced later in most countries. The 996 Litronic system has self-leveling. Porsche was very early in using HID systems in their cars. I suspect that headlight washers were required back then, but I am not sure.
The headlight housing (bucket) is exactly the same with Litronic and halogen, except for the special wiring in the headlight connector to the bulky Litronic HID ballasts placed in the frunk side walls.
All modifications to a light is illegal, also fitting HID systems to lights meant for halogen lights. However, the 993 Litronic and halogen headlamps looks exactly the same. They also share the same lens and reflector, but the Litronics have a D2S lamp holder on the reflector behind the lens, not the H1 halogen bulb type.
The 993 light is therefore very well suited for retrofitting HID systems, there is little or no danger of stray light or wrong light output pattern. Fitting HID in normal reflector headlights without the glass lens is not recommended.
The headlight front glass is the same in Litronic and halogen 993 lights, (there's only one type of replacement part available) so a MOT inspector would have to dismantle the headlight to see if a HID system is retrofitted.
I doubt that they take the time to do this.
The T-LIGHT kit allow for quick replacement of the original halogen bulbs too, so you could do this before inspection time if you do not want to waist the MOT technicians time.
I don't bother to do this, and it has never been noted in MOT. I have had one or wo reports from customers that had a fail and needed to revisit with the halogen bulbs.
Cheers,
Tore _________________ '95 993 C4
Bergvill F/X
Porsche electronics specialists, products and repair services.
I think the recommendation here is to have your headlamps properly aligned and hence give no reason for a tester to pay them any further attention, other than to make sure they are operational.
Palladium Indianapolis
Joined: 01 Nov 2015 Posts: 2496
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:48 pm Post subject:
Germany have just upped the ante on diesel,
the new mot smoke rule is another eu directive,
something that should have been in our rear view mirror on 17/6/16
As the low beam is a projector and Litronics is HID then I can't see a problem. I have Morimotos (designed for hid) and fitted with Tore's system so shoudn't be a ok. Anyway my mate Kev does the mots and all the stuff I can't do.
But as Tore said hids don't work very well in main (dazzle and scatter)
I have leds in main so not sure if that is covered by new regs.
Makes sense as too many have used hids in wrong housing. _________________ Porsche 944 S2 Coupe Guards Red
Porsche 993 Coupe 9m RS Replica
solentben Newbie
Joined: 10 Nov 2008 Posts: 10
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:58 pm Post subject: MoT testing
Hi guys. I'm guilty as charged running my 993 with HID to my dip beam for a few years, no problems thus far, but with the new MoT guidance I'm really quite unsure how it will play out. I really don't want to go to the faff of swopping out the HID for halogens just for a day as IMHO it does open up a can of legal worms I suspect? Also, hidden ballasts or not, I cannot imagine the glaring whiteness of the HID will fool any tester into thinking they are 'normal' halogens, even if some bulbs do mimic? A little checking will expose our ploy! I know safety & logic is being thrown out the window, albeit aftermarket HIDs which are bi-xenon i.e. also HID the main beam, can be dazzling and are perhaps the main reason this new MoT requirement has come about? My gut feeling is that individual MoT testers will either apply the rules without discretion or unless clearly dazzling, let them through on a nod? I am considering an early MoT test (pre 18th May 2018) as one option, to at least let the dust settle on this debate & sort it out sensibly over the next Winter (with the inevitable costs) for my 2019 driving. I know it isn't going away. Unfortunately.
Nimrod Montreal
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 554 Location: East Midlands
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:43 pm Post subject:
Good idea to get an early MOT but only delaying the inevitable.
I asked a friend about this who owns an MOT garage .
He knows my car has had HID dipped beam fitted but I asked him how would he know if another 93 came in as they were a factory option and the lenses are the same and they have washers etc...
He didn’t know but suggested that by May they may know which were factory or not from reg / chassis numbers . I find that hard to believe and he did concede that it will be difficult to know what to do in this situation .
It’s bllody crazy the MOT tester should be able to decide as some are bloody obviouslyfitted to unsuitable headlamps.
I don’t see how they can fail a car where it was an option that is working correctly as they aren’t meant to remove things to check .
That said it is a pita and if decent led’s had been available at the time I would have gone that route and just stopped back to halogen for one day each year . _________________ GT4
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solentben Newbie
Joined: 10 Nov 2008 Posts: 10
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:14 pm Post subject:
Hi Nimrod, thank you for your input and agree, I would only be delaying the inevitable and its defo a pita!! It was an option if I can't decide what best to do pre-18 May. Reading your reply ..... I also agree dubious they will know standard fit HID from new or not, but we are all trying to second guess here. My reading of your reply is that you're basically agreeing with me (to some extent?) that individual MoT testers will decide ay or nay on the day? We all wish common sense would prevail, obviously, but our modern world very rarely seems to understand the meaning of that, across all spheres of our life. Bring back Mr Churchill lol. Thanks. Ben
highway Albert Park
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Posts: 1742
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:35 pm Post subject:
The only garage this might be an issue is an opc or specialist. Mainstream MOT are big business. They have neither time nor interest to worry about dismantling headlight assemblies to confirm compliance. Never going to be a real world issue.
Tobesetc Albert Park
Joined: 02 Jun 2014 Posts: 1532 Location: West London, UK
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:20 pm Post subject:
can't see this ever being an issue at a regular MOT station. Garage that does mine is far too real-world (hopefully not famous last words....) _________________ 993 C4, Coupe '94 manual
Previous - '03 986 Boxster S
Robertb Long Beach
Joined: 01 Sep 2003 Posts: 6979 Location: South Oxfordshire
an interesting question, which needs some input from all.
To make an assumption, if the HID Ballast is inside the headlamp unit then you would probably be ok.
Can't recall if the factory HID unit had a deeper rear panel and thus allow the HID ballast to be attached to it.
Units where the HID ballasts are wired into the unit and stored outside of the headlamp unit are going to be a potential issue.
Since Porsche did have an OEM Xenon (Litonics) option for the 993, there is a potential solution for this, as long as the unit mirrors the OEM headlamp.
My 993 GT2 rep has Litronics (factory fitted). The ballasts are fitted to the inner wing inside the frunk and on full view.
I have had HIDs on the 996 since I bought it 10 years ago (projector style lights). The standard bulbs are positively dangerous.
Both cars now have 4800 Lumens LED main beams which I can highly recommend.
Never had even a comment at MOT time, despite neither car having headlight washers. I've been mates with my MOT tester for over 20 years so that may help, but he said that so long as the beam pattern is sensible he'd pass them. _________________ Nick
2004 GT3 CS in Atlas Grey with too many mods to list!
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NXI20 Paul Ricard
Joined: 02 Feb 2008 Posts: 3362 Location: South Bucks
So what's the deal with LED bulbs... do they simply plug into the existing halogen holder?
Yes but you need to chose carefully as some of them have massive heatsinks / fans which can make mounting a problem. I use the CREE type with a sort of "fan" of braided cable as the heatsink. This is much easier to deal with but still requires a bit of lateral thinking to make it all fit in a 993 or 996 headlight unit. _________________ Nick
2004 GT3 CS in Atlas Grey with too many mods to list!
1995 993 GT2 recreation in Polar Silver
2010 GT3 CS in Riviera Blue
1978 Carrera SC Barn Find in Red (restoration project)
maldren Suzuka
Joined: 07 Oct 2016 Posts: 1066
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:25 pm Post subject:
Robertb wrote:
So what's the deal with LED bulbs... do they simply plug into the existing halogen holder?
They vary, mine didn't, on a 996 the H7 clip didn't fit them to I had to buy a separate (BMW I think) mounting.
More importantly, my LEDs have a great, even white light but critically, not a very hot spot in the centre for lighting down the road. I was planning HIDs but now I'm not sure! _________________ Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
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can't see this ever being an issue at a regular MOT station. Garage that does mine is far too real-world (hopefully not famous last words....)
