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highway
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1723



PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Sleepy forum Reply with quote

Maybe it’s the time of year? No oil threads, build threads, valuation threads. It’s all a bit threadbare. I’m conscious of the changing landscape for cars in the UK. It’s a triple threat. The T charge will be levied in London for cars being used that don’t hit current emissions targets. It’s not a big step from this point for other local authorities to bring in their version of the same. I don’t use my 993 much but knowing every time I took it out of the garage I was being thumped with a £10-£15 “toxicity” fee, would really give me the needle.

We have speed cameras breeding and multiplying like vermin. As the cost drops, it becomes more lucrative for these cameras to get sited on dual carriageways and no doubt soon on B roads. For our collective safety. I can see the day approaching when these cameras effectively blanket the UK road network.

Finally, young drivers already have mandatory black boxes fitted to their cars in order to get insurance. These devices blow an electronic whistle if the cars are, for example, being used after a set time. Couldn’t be difficult for these boxes to become a mainstream requirement informing insurance companies of acceleration, speeds reached etc with a dim view being taken if the numbers look a bit edgy.

The end date for sale of new petrol engined cars has set and the future is likely some form of auto driven pod.

Top end classics are going to hold value regardless as art. Everything else surely takes a bath? Maybe not overnight but over a period there can’t be a rosy residual future for all the current modern classics.

Time grows short.
 
  
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jonttt
Zolder


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 5138
Location: Liverpool

2014 Porsche Boxster 981

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re fully automatic cars I think we are a long long way from that being a reality apart from on maybe a few (purpose built) roads. In the complexity of the real world AI just can’t cut the mustard yet and lab results flatter to deceive (to get funding etc....)....

With regard to fully electric cars we are decade away. c60% of the public does not have off road parking and the infrastructure / tech needed to support none combustion engines fully is just not there and will require a massive amount of investment at the wrong economic time.

KERS hybrid cars with small capacity petrol engines will be the next big thing but that will leave the way for petrol classics to thrive.

Legislation will not follow London’s model, there are very few cities that a) require it or b) could take the economic hit of losing business that would relocate. Plus with the increase in KERS technology more cars will be running around at city pace on electric meaning a drop in pollution levels.

You put all this together and the “experience” a classic car will offer (mainly around the sound / feel of a full combustion engine) will only increase and values will skyrocket out of control especially for those cars which offer that experience in bucketload such as a 993 with RSR’s and a BGTS Grin
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1997 Porsche 911 993 C4S My Journal
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angry
Montreal


Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 576
Location: East sussex


PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You put all this together and the “experience” a classic car will offer (mainly around the sound / feel of a full combustion engine) will only increase and values will skyrocket out of control especially for those cars which offer that experience in bucketload such as a 993 with RSR’s and a BGTS Grin
QUOTE

Ill go with your optimism
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 14714
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprised

I thought your thread title was 993 specific but it appears that we all might as well go and slash our wrists to facilitate a quick death rather than suffer a long drawn out one caused by boredom.

I get the gist of what you're saying and am thankful (!) in some ways that most of my motoring days are behind me but there's still plenty of fun to be had out there if you pick your roads and time of day/week to use them. It just underlines that NOW is the time to make more time to use cars such as ours as something more than just transport. As you say, time grows short.

In the last couple of weeks I've enjoyed a 718S Cayman to the full and had a couple of spirited drives in my own car without seeing a police car, camera (apart from in a 30 limit) or a congestion/pollution zone.

I fully appreciate why owners of cars that have risen in value in recent years are shy of putting miles on them and/or getting them dirty after being made pristine but don't have any sympathy with them as it's a choice they have made. I wonder how many bought them with the intention to store them rather than drive them. To my mind any 'appreciation' or 'lack of depreciation' should be regarded as a bonus not an alternative.

There's plenty of life in the various water-cooled sub-forums showing that later cars can still be enjoyed in the way they were built for. Many of them are also holding their value, or doing better than that.

Whilst writing this my thoughts have come round more and more to thinking that your musings are more of an excuse to leave the 993 in the garage. Wink

Perhaps it's time to cash in your investment and buy a kettle. Dont know
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or buy a tesla 2nd hand if you think that's the way the wind is blowing,

battery cars are part of the future, not the future on their own,

i wouldn't say no to a tesla if i had the money, but i would say no to a leaf.

you could cash your 993 in next week and walk away with a tesla next week aswell if you are that worried, you can drive it where you like without fear of penalty charges.


i think its only a natural step for other cities to follow London, councils aren't known for their business acumen.
 
  
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12600
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm buying an electric next Grin

(For Mrs Z)
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the mini will be the car that could tip the balance, if they get that right with a decent range, its going to fly out the door.

again, i wouldn't say no.
 
  
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highway
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1723



PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This forum sees little traffic compared to the others. Its partly due to the rise of the secret illuminati sub forum I’m sure. Thanks for the PM Terry. Been out from my sickbed in the 993 today. Clear skies make for a nice bimble out. My daughter now refuses to entertain the backseat of the car so it’s as well she was happier to stay at nannies. The back seat versatility of the 911 has ceased to have relevance for me so arguably I could look to a 981. That would also make selling the Elise sensible.

Another big 993 plus is surely the fact you can actually wring it out a bit without inviting serious mph. You definitely can’t do that in a 997S, much less a 991 as flat in 3rd sees you in front of a magistrate. I’ve also gone all day without seeing another one. Which is nice. 22 years old now as well. She looks well for it.
 
  
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you think this forum is dead, try owning an sc, lol
 
  
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tyinsky
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 498
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The end is most definitely approaching for those who enjoy fast cars. I had two tickets land on my doorstep yesterday from driving to Cornwall last Saturday. 99 and 106 so both will be a magistrate. Both cameras, one a fixed unit on the motorway, the other a mobile camera.

It won’t be long before large sections of the road network are covered with cameras attached to gantries and average speed cameras.

Add to it the nonsense of the London low emissions zone, and the extra taxation on oil based fuel to combat falling revenues as hybrids and electric become more commonplace. It looks a ***** future for those who love driving.
 
  
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bloody hell that's terrible, are you looking at a ban?

i go on a long trip now, and i cant enjoy the journey, i keep playing it over in my mind if i transgressed or not, its ridiculous this oppression.
 
  
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tyinsky
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 498
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. In the absence of divine intervention I could be looking at 6 months. If I’m lucky maybe a couple of weeks and 6 points. Fines are all much higher than they were a couple of years back too with up to £2,500 available to whoever is handing it out.
 
  
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and then the insurance knock on,

any discrepancies in the paperwork they sent, wrong colour, date etc

how far is the court?
 
  
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tyinsky
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 498
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palladium wrote:
and then the insurance knock on,

any discrepancies in the paperwork they sent, wrong colour, date etc

how far is the court?


Exactly – there is no way the premium will remain the same on the cars.

Fines are now hugely expensive as the government has to boost income somehow to pay for the ever growing welfare bill. Speeding motorists are the new drink drivers.

No mistakes on the paperwork, and reading the small print any mistakes on their part will not stop a conviction.

Drive Cop Rules Judge Banned Bike
 
  
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mollytherocker
Hockenheim


Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 655
Location: North West


PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, its gonna be fine.

We mighty just need to search out the right roads a little more. Mine is a weekend toy anyway.

Electric cars, self driving, tolls, auto speed limiting etc is all coming, but VERY slowly.

If anything, it will make 'escaping' to the countryside at the weekends even more fun.

Chins up!
 
  
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Ghost
Estoril


Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 3998
Location: In absentia


PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is this massively bucolic "countryside" of which you speak?

Around us, the countryside roads feature:

Copious levels of cack, a potion containing a mix of mud and assorted animal effluents.
More potholes than a good Swiss cheese
Drivers who are either catatonic behind the wheel at 20mph under whatever the speed limit is at any given point, or suicidal tractor jockeys - Git ooooorrrrfff moy roooaaaddd!!!
A mysterious blanket imposition almost overnight of a 50mph speed limit and cameras.

As a result, I have added massively agriculturally treaded tyres to my daily, the 968 is going shortly, and I am not sure that it is worth holding on to the 993 either.
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the persecution does get you thinking, my driving isn't as good since ive been looking at the speedo all day, yes i am not going over the limit, but my eyes are away a fair bit, it takes a split second for someone to go in the road, its no good setting the limiter as the speeds constantly vary,

my dad was treated terribly in my view, he was stuck behind a tractor blowing straw everywhere, he dident see the speed camera and briefly just put his foot down to escape the tractor, yes the **** got him at about 10mph over, he was observing the speed limit until that quick burst to get past.

i hope it goes well for you, nice if you could afford a specialist solicitor.
 
  
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mollytherocker
Hockenheim


Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 655
Location: North West


PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palladium wrote:
the persecution does get you thinking, my driving isn't as good since ive been looking at the speedo all day, yes i am not going over the limit, but my eyes are away a fair bit, it takes a split second for someone to go in the road, its no good setting the limiter as the speeds constantly vary,

my dad was treated terribly in my view, he was stuck behind a tractor blowing straw everywhere, he dident see the speed camera and briefly just put his foot down to escape the tractor, yes the **** got him at about 10mph over, he was observing the speed limit until that quick burst to get past.

i hope it goes well for you, nice if you could afford a specialist solicitor.


He could probably challenged that. I recently challenged a speeding offence via a specialist Solicitor and got it withdrawn.
 
  
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HPNer
Hockenheim


Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 724
Location: Jolly Boyos Country


PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try my mate Jeanette Miller
https://motoroffence.co.uk/about-us/miss-justice/

she's as good as they get!
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Today, I shall mostly be driving my 993 . . .
-------
You've bought the ticket, so take the ride . . .
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
 
  
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NinjaPower
Hockenheim


Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 746



PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the value of 993's and other classics generally have an adverse effect on forums.

When 964's and 993's were £12,000-18,000 they were extremely affordable for many enthusiasts who would happily tinker with them at home. They would service them, improve them, fix broken stuff, all that kind of thing.

Now they are £50k-£1,000,000 and are mostly being bought by people to put in a small 'collection' and will be trailered to specialists for a £3000 service.

Very few people buy a £100k classic and then go on an Internet forum to ask people how to change the oil on their driveway at home...
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