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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject: interesting 993 road test Reply with quote


Open Youtube Page



hi, i found this interesting, especially at 7.35, when he tells us how clean the cars emissions are, is that clean by yesterdays standards, or todays?
 
  
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madalaa
Fuji


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9297
Location: West London

2009 Porsche Boxster (987)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think American 993 was indeed “cleaner” than the European 993 and consequently had less bhp and it also had those terrible rubber nipples on the bumpers ........
 
  
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks, i wonder how it would fare in todays requirements in this country if it was a modern car, you always hear people say air cooling ended because it was too tough to pass the modern standard, i hear the opposite where people say that because of the engine heat, they actually burnt very clean,

he seems well pleased with that car, i would be aswell Thumb
 
  
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Endoman
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1077
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The SAI sytem was a joke and is a constant problem for California cars, so in fact they aren't that clean, but at least they aren't diesels. Still a joy to own and drive. I owe my mate Adam a lot for persuading me to buy it 15 yrs. ago, best thing I ever did.
_________________
Porsche 944 S2 Coupe Guards Red
Porsche 993 Coupe 9m RS Replica
 
  
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hopeydaze
Silverstone


Joined: 06 Jan 2012
Posts: 117
Location: Wargrave, Berkshire, UK


PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, my 993 won't qualify for London's proposed ultra low emission zone. This will extend to the north & south Circular so its a pretty wide area. £10 per day to drive a polluting car inside that area.

So what you say, I never drive near London. I bet though that other cities like Oxford try to adopt a similar approach.
 
  
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wozy
Österreich


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 877
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could e wrong, but I’m pretty sure the 993 was a world car. Same emission spec world wide. So a US car, emissions wise would be the same as a UK one.

If modern cars were tested (and rated) in real world conditions, I’m also pretty sure I’ve read, they arn’t actually that much cleaner than our dear old 993s. And don’t get me started with the introduction of the CAT and it’s failings Smile
_________________
Porsche Cars of Great Britain launched the 993 in the UK in early December 1993 registering 12 x UK cars on the 6th & 7th of that month; mine is one of them.

993 C2. MBM. C4 mounts, RSRs, RS Short shifter. RS steering wheel. FSDs & M033s
Previous 2.7S, 3.2, 964 and 968CS
 
  
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wozy wrote:
I could e wrong, but I’m pretty sure the 993 was a world car. Same emission spec world wide. So a US car, emissions wise would be the same as a UK one.

If modern cars were tested (and rated) in real world conditions, I’m also pretty sure I’ve read, they arn’t actually that much cleaner than our dear old 993s. And don’t get me started with the introduction of the CAT and it’s failings Smile



so air cooling was dropped for other reasons then?
 
  
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Sutton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 271
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Porsche was finding it harder to get the air cooled engine to meet various targets. In addition to emissions:

- noise (no water jacket to muffle sound)
- headline power output (twin plugs make it difficult to move to 4 valves per cylinder)
- power/ torque curve (no variable camshaft timing)
- fuel economy
_________________
1994 993 C4
 
  
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hopeydaze
Silverstone


Joined: 06 Jan 2012
Posts: 117
Location: Wargrave, Berkshire, UK


PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm still pissed off that my 993 isn't going to be welcome to visit friends and my birthplace inside London's north/south Circular, without paying the ULEZ daily charge.
 
  
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madalaa
Fuji


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9297
Location: West London

2009 Porsche Boxster (987)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live in London just outside the new ultra emissions zone but if I still had my 993 it would have been a mega annoyance as I believe it will 24/7 so I am not sorry that my old girl has been sold, I am getting sorely tried with all this shoite:-(
 
  
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wozy
Österreich


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 877
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palladium wrote:
wozy wrote:
I could e wrong, but I’m pretty sure the 993 was a world car. Same emission spec world wide. So a US car, emissions wise would be the same as a UK one.

If modern cars were tested (and rated) in real world conditions, I’m also pretty sure I’ve read, they arn’t actually that much cleaner than our dear old 993s. And don’t get me started with the introduction of the CAT and it’s failings Smile



so air cooling was dropped for other reasons then?


I’m also a biker. I well remember an emissions test of a bike with a CAT installed and tested again without one. Bikes like lots of cars have a dip in power at certain revs ...... on a bike I think it was 5K, so that it was capable of meeting noise and emissions regs. When they removed the CAT, it made a whole load more power and across the rev range, a lot less bad pollutants and better on fuel consumption. Go figure .

Hence why non CAT 993s still easily pass the MOT on emissions..... they are clean engines. It was noise mostly that killed them .
_________________
Porsche Cars of Great Britain launched the 993 in the UK in early December 1993 registering 12 x UK cars on the 6th & 7th of that month; mine is one of them.

993 C2. MBM. C4 mounts, RSRs, RS Short shifter. RS steering wheel. FSDs & M033s
Previous 2.7S, 3.2, 964 and 968CS
 
  
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as i thought really, but i wont start,

but surely the noise is nothing like the exhaust noise of a racing bike, or the noise when someone floors the mustang v8, it doesn't add up to me,

my sc is noisy compared to my van, but quiet compared to a ducati.


i very much echo what mr madaala says, so tired of it all, and all for what?
 
  
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wozy
Österreich


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 877
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palladium wrote:
as i thought really, but i wont start,

but surely the noise is nothing like the exhaust noise of a racing bike, or the noise when someone floors the mustang v8, it doesn't add up to me,

my sc is noisy compared to my van, but quiet compared to a ducati.


i very much echo what mr madaala says, so tired of it all, and all for what?


I should have added the latter bike test was with a non CE approved pipe. I’ve always wondered how a duke in standard form passed regs, but hey a duke with Termis on used to make the floor of my dear old LR Defenders floor shake. Very Happy
_________________
Porsche Cars of Great Britain launched the 993 in the UK in early December 1993 registering 12 x UK cars on the 6th & 7th of that month; mine is one of them.

993 C2. MBM. C4 mounts, RSRs, RS Short shifter. RS steering wheel. FSDs & M033s
Previous 2.7S, 3.2, 964 and 968CS
 
  
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tyinsky
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 431
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madalaa wrote:
I live in London just outside the new ultra emissions zone but if I still had my 993 it would have been a mega annoyance as I believe it will 24/7 so I am not sorry that my old girl has been sold, I am getting sorely tried with all this shoite:-(


Sadiq Khan is a big pile of 5hite. He is worse than useless and a c unt.

No way I will give up my 993 because of him though (also in London just outside the current zone).
 
  
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madalaa
Fuji


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9297
Location: West London

2009 Porsche Boxster (987)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts about that slimey piece of shoite Sadie Khan are certainly not printable ☹️ 🤜
 
  
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LondonRob
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 315
Location: West London


PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tfl’s Consultation for the expansion of the Ultra Low Emissions Zone can be found on this link:

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/air-quality-consultation-phase-3b/#have%20your%20say

I don’t have a problem with the congestion charge in central London. Public transport is the most sensible way of getting around central London on a weekday.

But expanding the ultra low emissions zone to cover the whole of the area inside the north and south circulars, applying it 24/7 and applying it to residents inside the zone is ridiculous. Public transport to get around outer London just isn’t viable in a lot of cases - as if anybody in their right mind would freely choose to sit on the North or south circular every day for fun. I’m not sure what good responding to the consultation will do but it gave me a chance to vent.
 
  
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madalaa
Fuji


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9297
Location: West London

2009 Porsche Boxster (987)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Rob for the link, I have also just had my say, I counted there were a choice 21 different ethnic groups wtf!! But I suppose that sums up London.
 
  
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LondonRob
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 315
Location: West London


PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the impression the last few questions were there just to piss me off again Grin

Ps - can you post the comments you entered, I suspect they’ll be worth a laugh!
 
  
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Will Statt
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 470
Location: Derbyshire


PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutton wrote:
I think Porsche was finding it harder to get the air cooled engine to meet various targets. In addition to emissions:

- noise (no water jacket to muffle sound)
- headline power output (twin plugs make it difficult to move to 4 valves per cylinder)
- power/ torque curve (no variable camshaft timing)
- fuel economy


Basically they had reached the reliable power limits for a road car given the constraints of the air cooling. They did have space for 4 valves per cylinder, but the extra mechanicals would have obstructed the air flow, and therefore prevented sufficient cooling of the head. Water cooling was the only way to go. As with motorbikes.... there is a limit to air cooling's capabilities.
 
  
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will Statt wrote:
Sutton wrote:
I think Porsche was finding it harder to get the air cooled engine to meet various targets. In addition to emissions:

- noise (no water jacket to muffle sound)
- headline power output (twin plugs make it difficult to move to 4 valves per cylinder)
- power/ torque curve (no variable camshaft timing)
- fuel economy


Basically they had reached the reliable power limits for a road car given the constraints of the air cooling. They did have space for 4 valves per cylinder, but the extra mechanicals would have obstructed the air flow, and therefore prevented sufficient cooling of the head. Water cooling was the only way to go. As with motorbikes.... there is a limit to air cooling's capabilities.




so the moral of the story, be content with what you had if it was great anyway, i don't need 0-60 in 3.5 secs or 200mph.............more isn't better
 
  
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