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Pip1968
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1100
Location: Blighty


PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject: Where are all the OEM Clubsport front part of the roll cages Reply with quote

I start this topic by way of a follow on from this thread: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=124656 and NXI20's comments that finding a front section of the Clubsport cage is like getting hold of a new 991 GT3/RS Very Happy .

What I would be interested to find out is which of these categories do you fall into:-

1. I have a 996 GT3 Clubsport with OEM rear cage but not the front part

2. I have a 996 GT3 with the OEM rear cage and the front section

a) But never put it in and keep it because it belongs to the car
b) Put it in for track days or spirited drives/its always in

3. I have a 997 GT3 Clubsport with OEM rear cage but not the front part

4. I have a 997 GT3 Clubsport with the OEM rear cage and the front section

a) But never put it in and keep it because it belongs to the car
b) Put it in for track days or spirited drives/it is always in

I thought I would ask about the 997 too although I doubt the two front sections (996/997) are compatible. Presumably if you bought new and opted for the cage you got both the front and rear sections.

If that is the case why is it difficult to find the front sections - Dont know ???

Pip
 
  
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3788
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll start at the bottom - I have a 997 Clubsport with just the rear cage. This is because the front part of the cage wasn't even an option on the 997 (let alone included), but rather a separate item which had to be ordered from Porsche Motorsport separately and retrofitted (which is why it is rare to ever see them. It isn't cheap either).

Now to the question of where are all of the 996 CS front cages, the short answer is that they have unquestionably been lost.

You will note from the 996 GT3 handbook that Porsche says not to drive on the road with them fitted (the reason for which is almost certainly that if you had an accident with it in place while wearing the inertia reels and no helmet it is entirely possible that you could split your skull right open on the side-roof bar in the even of a serious lateral impact). Consequently, other than when the original owner bought them for committed track work a lot (possibly even the majority) of the front cages didn't make it out of the box that they came in. Depending upon how long they were kept by owner 1, owner 2 or 3 was buying for £15-30k less than list and often didn't even know that front cages came with them. They were depreciating assets back then and if someone didn't have need of a cage nobody cared about the front section. Those front cages thus often languished in owner 1 or 2's garages long after the car had gone and eventually those garages were cleared out. Owner 1 was generally the kind of affluent that they wouldn't have wasted their time trying to find a buyer for a used front cage on eBay either...

Basically, the passage of history means that there are a lot less front cages still in circulation than there were Clubsports built. And it isn't as if they were exactly selling CSs by the boatload to begin with.

Fast forward to now, when a GT3 is an appreciating asset, Clubsports are the most desirable spec and everyone now knows that they came with a front cage and wants one for completeness and to maintain value. The only people who have one are simply not going to part with it unless you are buying the whole car and if any did show up in the back on somebody's garage it will probably be sold in a heartbeat for a healthy sum (likely without ever needing to be publicly advertised).

And this is what NXI20 meant when he said that you'd be lucky to find one. Paper Bag

Keep looking, and at least everyone on here knows that you are in the market if they hear of one. But your chances are - shall we say - suboptimal. Make sure that your eBay searches extend to mainland Europe too - far more CSs sold there than here.
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Colin

Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
Black 996 GT3 Mk2 - Gone, but will never be forgotten
 
  
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Stuart
General
General


Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 5081
Location: Waterworld

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I bought my 996 club sport the previous owner(s) had the front cage section stored at Parr. On buying I collected the front part straight away and stored it before researching padding options. Finally found the best option via Rennlist and now have it fitted exactly as this thread:

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/578447-safety-suggestion-for-roll-cage.html

You may want to contact various GT specialists such as Parr and JZM to see if they are storing any others.

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NXI20
Paul Ricard


Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 3287
Location: South Bucks

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2b - always in & 3 Wink

I could have gazumped Senoj & got a front section for the 997 but I'm too nice so I let him buy it Smile
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Nick

2004 GT3 CS in Atlas Grey with too many mods to list!
1995 993 GT2 recreation in Polar Silver
2010 GT3 CS in Riviera Blue Smile
1978 Carrera SC Barn Find in Red (restoration project)
 
  
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Daniel
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 11919
Location: Not where I want to be!

2000 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk1

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

No.2

It was in my car when I bought it and has the thickest padding around it.

Dan
_________________
*Current - GT3 996.1 Clubsport (Manthey K400)

EX VR993 - C4
EX 993 - C2
EX GT3 996.1
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5079
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4a.

@nick, what you mean is you missed the end of the ebay auction 😄
 
  
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NXI20
Paul Ricard


Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 3287
Location: South Bucks

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senoj wrote:
@nick, what you mean is you missed the end of the ebay auction 😄


See, my plan worked perfectly Smile















That's what you were supposed to think Floor
_________________
Nick

2004 GT3 CS in Atlas Grey with too many mods to list!
1995 993 GT2 recreation in Polar Silver
2010 GT3 CS in Riviera Blue Smile
1978 Carrera SC Barn Find in Red (restoration project)
 
  
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Stuart Mackay
Monza


Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 208
Location: Swaffham, Norfolk and Good


PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Option 3
_________________
2007 Speed Yellow 997 Carrera GT3 CS
2000 Westfield Cosworth
 
  
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Trap 125
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 333


2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 b
_________________
'96 Guards Red 993 Carerra C2, HB seats, RS steering wheel, front turbo PU, Bilstein HD's, HID's, RS engine mounts, Motor Sound Pack, Dansk mufflers & cat bypass, Wayne Re -map 305bhp

2004 996.2 GT3 Clubsport
 
  
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LaSource
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 422



PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

996 GT3 CS: 2b
996 GT3 RS: 2b
997 GT3 RS: 4a...moving to 4b

..clubsport is not complete unless whole cage is in Smile

Personally I've been lucky to either find a clubsport with full cage or have the front cage in my loft from a previous car - partly that was the attraction in complete cars with all the CS trimmings.

Agree with Disco ref front cage & inertia belts - so harnesses are mandatory. Probably still there is increased risk but it is within my appetite.
I went through a period where the front cage was installed only before a track day but given most days are track days it now stays in.

The 996 front cages are relatively easier to live with as they have only one A-pillar bar and so are not all that difficult to manoeuvre around nor do they impair visibility.
The 997 front cages were much more robust items with double bar A-pillar posts and a lower door post in between seats and door sill. The double A-pillar bars also make the passenger side wing mirror a little trickier to see out of (basically you have tilt head back a little to see the mirror behind the pillars. So unless it really is a track only car it can be cumbersome for most.

I do have 997 front cage and am thinking of installing it back in. Must admit it is mainly for an 'original look' and heritage reasons than any intention to enter any endurance races! - conscious that I will probably look like a wannabe muppet at a cars and coffee meet Very Happy
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Previous:
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997 GT3 RS 4.0, 997 GT3 RS 4.0, 997 GT3 RS 3.8
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996 GT3 Mk2 Comfort
 
  
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5079
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NXI20 wrote:
Senoj wrote:
@nick, what you mean is you missed the end of the ebay auction 😄


See, my plan worked perfectly Smile

That's what you were supposed to think Floor


And i thought i had a fairy godmother Floor
 
  
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5079
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My reservation about installing is

a: its the wrong colour, i think they were all black?

B: not sure about it in a car on the road, tatting that with one’s head in an accident may hurt a bit...

A: is easily fixed
B: isn’t
 
  
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LaSource
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 422



PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senoj wrote:
My reservation about installing is

a: its the wrong colour, i think they were all black?

B: not sure about it in a car on the road, tatting that with one’s head in an accident may hurt a bit...

A: is easily fixed
B: isn’t


A: I am investigating Guards Red powdercoating. My front sections are black at the moment. Will post results when they are in

B: Yeah, maybe I'll put it in on fast trackdays only then...
_________________
997 GT3 RS 3.8
996 GT3 RS
996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport
KTM XBOW RR Superlight Spec
BMW E39 M5, BMW E46 M3
Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE

Previous:
981 GT4 3.8 Clubsport
997 GT3 RS 4.0, 997 GT3 RS 4.0, 997 GT3 RS 3.8
996 GT3 RS, 996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport
996 GT3 Mk2 Comfort
 
  
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NLW73
Suzuka


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 1086
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen a front CS/RS cage for sale once on PH but it went fast.

never seen one since. I thought about buying it and retro fitting to my tech-quipment cage but it was major aggro

what about racecarsdirect.com or somewhere like that?
_________________
996 GT3 mk2 - Guards Red
996 C2 3.4 - Ocean Blue
 
  
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david_yorkshire
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 273
Location: Herts


PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

related question;
is there a front cage for the 991 ?
 
  
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NXI20
Paul Ricard


Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 3287
Location: South Bucks

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

david_yorkshire wrote:
related question;
is there a front cage for the 991 ?


There is - better be sitting down before you click on the link David!

http://www.carnewal.com/products/991/p91004/991-Roll-Cage-Front-Section
_________________
Nick

2004 GT3 CS in Atlas Grey with too many mods to list!
1995 993 GT2 recreation in Polar Silver
2010 GT3 CS in Riviera Blue Smile
1978 Carrera SC Barn Find in Red (restoration project)
 
  
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david_yorkshire
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 273
Location: Herts


PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprised

Should have checked there first !
maybe not Smile
 
  
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Pip1968
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1100
Location: Blighty


PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

david_yorkshire wrote:
Surprised

Should have checked there first !
maybe not Smile


Think of it as a long term investment. In 10-15 years when they stop making them you will have produced one of the lucky few (as above) . People like me are relying on people like you to buy them Very Happy

I wonder if with the advent ot the 'new' market for GT3/RS ie those who dont mind an 'automatic' non 'stick' race car, will there be an increase in the number of Comfort specification GT cars.

Pip
 
  
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david_yorkshire
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 273
Location: Herts


PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still tempted....

if only just to try and work out where all the parts go together ! Question

Moving house & 2 babies eating up time is putting me off a bit though
 
  
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5079
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pip1968 wrote:


I wonder if with the advent ot the 'new' market for GT3/RS ie those who dont mind an 'automatic' non 'stick' race car, will there be an increase in the number of Comfort specification GT cars.

Pip


Already happened. Although slightly balanced off by those who really want a comfy but have re sale paranoia Laughing
 
  
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