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bambam31
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Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 6
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject: Help Please 997 Gen 1 Turbo Reply with quote

Folks, wonder if anybody can help?

I have the pleasure of owning a 2008 997.1 Turbo, covered 48K miles.

Over the past 6 to 9 months the car has developed a very alarming tendency to die after a couple of cranks when starting, normally starts on the second attempt.

My local OPC have looked at it an inordinate amount of times, battery, spark plugs checked and corroded battery wires changed - all to no avail.

The OPC seem to be giving up - and suggested a car on permanent trickle charge.

Car is used for around 40 minutes daily.

Need some advice please!



Question Question
 
  
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deMort
Reims


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 4279
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok .. do you mean die as in its running and cutting out or do you mean after a few cranks it wont turn over anymore ?

If the latter then its ther power distibution board pin thats corroded from the info so far Very Happy

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118716&highlight=power
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bambam31
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Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 6
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah sorry not very clear.
I crank the car for a couple of seconds but it won’t catch, just dies.
I’ve got a good video but can’t post it!
 
  
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Phil 997
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 12417
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you have a lovely car, do try and post the vid even if you post it on youtube then paste a link in here , you have found the right place to hopefully get the advise you need. Thumb
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Alfaian
Imola


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 752
Location: S.wales


PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll go with Demort's answer.

Good luck.
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deMort
Reims


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 4279
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im still not sure if you mean by " it dies " that it wont spin over any more .. do you loose the dash lights .. any clicking from the starter when it dies ?

See if you can email me the video .. De.Mort@virginmedia.com

It sounds interesting as anything an OPC struggles on is going to be a problem worth working on .. well for me al least .

I have a few ideas but really need to have a good description or video of the symptoms .

As your new and probably have no idea im an ex OPC mechanic now at an Indy with 14 years Porsche experience .. and i enjoy problems like this !
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bambam31
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Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 6
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks mate, you are very kind.
Videos should be with you now - also a video that shows the car occasionally whooshing on start up!
Thanks
Stuart
 
  
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Clanky
Österreich


Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 892
Location: Scotland

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strange this coming up just now.

I have more or less the same issue at approx the same miles.

Mine usually starts ok, but occasionally will appear to be completely dead when I turn the key.

Other times, it will give a click from the starter motor, some times it turns over a couple of times slowly but not fast enough to catch.

When the problems occur, it usually takes a couple more turns of the key & then it fires as normal.

The problems don't seem to be any different if the engine is hot or cold.

Ive looked at the main starter cables & they seem ok, no corrosion or verdigris on the ends.

Battery tested ok & shows 14+ volts when running so assube the cables are good too.

To me, its looking like the starter motor is at fault, & been quoted around the £400 for a replacement so would like to try & confirm this before pulling the trigger on it!
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deMort
Reims


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 4279
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has kinda moved to emails , ive just seen his video and sent a reply .. basically 2 turns of the starter motor and it dies / stops spinning over , turn off the ignition and try again and it spins over and starts fine .

My thought atm for this are engine earth lead .. hmm probably not but needs checking and back to my favourite Power distributer pin corrosion .

If you get a clicking solinoid but no starter action then the starter is the most obvious .

If you get similar to above with slow spin over at times then it might be the power pin ..

Link here about it ..

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118716&highlight=power

You may also have an ignition switch fault but the above are the first ports of call really to check / replace .


EDIT ..

bambam31 video of his fault ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baez7YydBHQ
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Last edited by deMort on Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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steve baker
Nürburgring


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 385
Location: Essex, UK

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
This has kinda moved to emails , ive just seen his video and sent a reply .. basically 2 turns of the starter motor and it dies / stops spinning over , turn off the ignition and try again and it spins over and starts fine .

My thought atm for this are engine earth lead .. hmm probably not but needs checking and back to my favourite Power distributer pin corrosion .

If you get a clicking solinoid but no starter action then the starter is the most obvious .

If you get similar to above with slow spin over at times then it might be the power pin ..

Link here about it ..

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118716&highlight=power

You may also have an ignition switch fault but the above are the first ports of call really to check / replace .


My gen 1 turbo has had a similar fault during the summer particularly when hot. Hot restart and it will invariably not crank beyond the first revolution as if the battery is drained. Reset the key and try again it will turn over and start. I had to get it out the garage for a ladder 2 weeks ago when it was bitter cold and it did exactly the same which is the first time its done that when ambient isn't hot!!!! I will have to get it investigated in the spring when it's on the road. Dont know
 
  
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deMort
Reims


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 4279
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blimy .. thats 3 of you all on the same post ..

Hot only and to me thats starter motor or possibly ignition switch with starter motor being the first thing to confirm.

You also have battery leads , engine earth strap .. starter relay .. but none of these really is bad one attempt and fine the next .. thats more starter / power dist pin type of fault .

Check his movie above .. its on my edit.
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steve baker
Nürburgring


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 385
Location: Essex, UK

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
Blimy .. thats 3 of you all on the same post ..

Hot only and to me thats starter motor or possibly ignition switch with starter motor being the first thing to confirm.

You also have battery leads , engine earth strap .. starter relay .. but none of these really is bad one attempt and fine the next .. thats more starter / power dist pin type of fault .

Check his movie above .. its on my edit.


Yes that's similar although I tend to get less revolutions from the engine first attempt. The tacho spikes just the same.
 
  
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deMort
Reims


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 4279
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would certainly start with checking the power dist. pin as to me atm this seems like a voltage failure to the starter .. its trying to draw more current than it can due to a resistance .. on the first crank it will in effect heat up the resistance area and so works on the second attempt ...

Well thats my theory Smile

EDIT ..

The next would be a test on the starter to measure current draw or just replace it .. they do tend to suffer on the Turbos .
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bambam31
Newbie


Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 6
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porsche thought it was the starter motor found a corroded cable changed that and thought they’d fixed it, guess what they hadn’t!

Going through silly thoughts that I should trade in for an RS/S5 - nah

Dont know
 
  
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bambam31
Newbie


Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 6
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bambam31 wrote:
Porsche thought it was the starter motor found a corroded cable changed that and thought they’d fixed it, guess what they hadn’t!

Going through silly thoughts that I should trade in for an RS/S5 - nah

Dont know


Or the other thought would be to go for a 991.1 C4S
Not sure I can live without a TURBO in my life tho
 
  
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MisterCorn
Zolder


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 5753
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you considered measuring voltages to see where the issue might be? Use the battery negative as the reference and measure the voltage on the chassis, starter solenoid, and starter. That would give you a lot of info on what is happening. A few DVMs would cost you no more than £30 and if it happens regularly it won't be long before you see it. If you get stuck let me know and I can lend you a data logger to log the voltages during cranking and starting.

MC
 
  
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bambam31
Newbie


Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 6
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MisterCorn wrote:
Have you considered measuring voltages to see where the issue might be? Use the battery negative as the reference and measure the voltage on the chassis, starter solenoid, and starter. That would give you a lot of info on what is happening. A few DVMs would cost you no more than £30 and if it happens regularly it won't be long before you see it. If you get stuck let me know and I can lend you a data logger to log the voltages during cranking and starting.

MC

Thanks pal - appreciate the advice.
OPC are looking at it AGAIN tomorrow.
Will be sure to let people know how it goes.
 
  
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Clanky
Österreich


Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 892
Location: Scotland

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding logging the voltages, can you do this with Durametric?
It would be good to check the voltage when cranking to see if there is a significant drop at the motor.

Ive previously checked the voltage between the alternator/chassis & battery & it appeared ok. Also had the same results between the starter/chassis solenoid/chassis & they were ok. Never tried when cranking though as that would take a bit more work to set up.

I'll be checking Demorts power pin when I get a chance as a first port of call.
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deMort
Reims


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 4279
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Clanky

Check what i posted on that link .. make sure the battery is disconnected before messing around there and try not to pull the positive lead all the way off .. its ok if you do but its a bit of a fiddle to get it back on .

If you do find corrosion then sanding it down wont work .. trust me .. its unusual to find corrosion there but i have seen it many times with strange starting or electrical faults .

Its something to prove / test and move on basically .

You will need an amp clamp to measure the current draw of the starter .. its not voltage you measure im afraid .. a very high current draw will be a failing starter motor .

Starter motors on these do tend to die sooner than other Porsches though .
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Clanky
Österreich


Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 892
Location: Scotland

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
@ Clanky

Check what i posted on that link .. make sure the battery is disconnected before messing around there and try not to pull the positive lead all the way off .. its ok if you do but its a bit of a fiddle to get it back on .

If you do find corrosion then sanding it down wont work .. trust me .. its unusual to find corrosion there but i have seen it many times with strange starting or electrical faults .

Its something to prove / test and move on basically .

You will need an amp clamp to measure the current draw of the starter .. its not voltage you measure im afraid .. a very high current draw will be a failing starter motor .

Starter motors on these do tend to die sooner than other Porsches though .


Thanks for the info, I can borrow a clamp meter from my work..

Looking through the other post, does the distribution box on the inside bolt directly on to the back of the pin through the bulkhead?

Also regarding the pin, how does it pass through the bulkhead?
I assume the O ring is simply a seal & wondered if the 2 x 13mm nuts hold some sort of insulator in place.

any more info would be great thanks.
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