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Gixxer996
Trainee


Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 97



PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject: Ignition / immobiliser / module issue - any ideas? Reply with quote

Evening chaps,
After little use over the past few months the 996 is being a pain in the a***!

Problem-

Take out key and although engine stops the ignition remains on(cannot lock car by remote and obviously battery would drain) New ignition switch I thought- tried it made no difference( even tried a spare lock barrel).

After much head scratching and investigation - if I remove fuse E1 (terminal 86s) ignition will turn off and remote locking works again (but engine won’t start).

Anyone got any ideas or similar experience? Wiring diagrams?

Think I may be looking at a new module (which will require matching immobiliser and keys if bought second hand) FFS!

Any help would be appreciated- thanks.
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5128
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose its too much to ask if you are anywhere near Brighton ?

No one with interesting faults ever lives near me sigh ..

Ok .. long shot .. it hasnt had a flat battery recently has it ?

There is a switch in the ignition barrel that tells the car the key has been removed but if you have swopped out the ignition lock (complete ) then its not that ?

The car wont lock if it thinks the key is still in the lock .

The instrument cluster on a 996 also contains the gateway .. if the gateway doesnt go to sleep then the car will have approx 2 amp discarge with a pcm fitted .

The fuse you pull is also a gateway fuse .. interesting .

Ok a bit of work but if you can remove the instrument cluster then see if the car locks . im guessing it will as it will be similar to removeing the fuse E1 .. i have some thoughts but id like to know about the possible jump start .. also if you live anywhere near me .

Wireing diagram for a 99/2000 model is in the 996 faq section .

i can spend more time on this at the weekend studying the diagrams to see what i can come up with but kinda time limited atm .

EDIT ..

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=83491

wiring diagram .. theres also a few relays that could get stuck , check the relay section for term 30 and 86S .. swop them out with other relays .

Also i may have read it wrong .. do you mean the cluster is awake .. milage etc or do you mean all the ignition lights are on as if its the latter then it should be something back feeding or a stuck relay .

Did this just happen out of the blue or was there anything preceding it .. work done to the car etc ..

So many questions and so little time .. Dammit .
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Gixxer996
Trainee


Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 97



PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant- tanks Demort, really appreciate your reply.

I did not know there were wiring diagrams on here- Idiot! That’s great it will give me something to use when buzzing out the loom.

I have not tried starting without the cluster connected but will give it a try as it could narrow down possible causes (wiring/cluster). Yes I mean cluster is awake not ignition on.

No it has never been jump started and the issue is not following any relevant work.

I’m not near Brighton but not a million miles away (Hadleigh in Essex)- thank you very much for the offer and I’ll bare it in mind if I can’t fix it myself (I am a mechanic by trade)

Car is currently stored away from home- so I’ll grab my multimeter and print out some diagrams for the weekend. What are your thoughts if it works without the cluster?

Thanks for your help
 
  
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Gixxer996
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Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 97



PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok- I’ve sussed it! Feel like an idiot and really should know better!!!

Went back to basics in trying to find the issue. Ignition barrel!!!
The barrel is not returning all the way home when the key is removed. Clearly there is sufficient ware to prevent the drive at the back of the barrel to allow the mechanism to fully close (and let the car know it’s fully shut off). I will take the barrel out on the weekend to determine if the ware is on the barrel or the mechanism.

Really bad luck that my spare barrel and housing/ mechanism seems to have the same level of ware as the problem is still present on that one. The pic below shows that with the key almost removed I can turn it an extra mm which returns it to full functionality.

The second pic shows the barrel removed from my spare mech and is intended to show the engagement point of the barrel drive to the mech- this is the interface which the third pic shows is visibly worn preventing solid engagement.

If my original mech is worn like this one it’s will be replaced.

Thanks to demort for trying to help.
 



9329964F-0226-4F3A-9A32-6307EF391E11.jpeg
 Description:
Visible ware on the drive slot
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9329964F-0226-4F3A-9A32-6307EF391E11.jpeg



E21B0457-BADA-420C-B865-E3407837C605.jpeg
 Description:
Mechanism
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E21B0457-BADA-420C-B865-E3407837C605.jpeg



9AD2C42A-8E44-43B5-B012-3E75211B0C68.jpeg
 Description:
Key almost removed
 Filesize:  1.49 MB
 Viewed:  832 Time(s)

9AD2C42A-8E44-43B5-B012-3E75211B0C68.jpeg


  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5128
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit .. ive been waiting half the day to tell you this ..

The car thinks the key is still in the lock so the gateway is still active and you cant lock it !

Nice going to find it so quick though Smile
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Gixxer996
Trainee


Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 97



PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I should of paid more attention to the basics before immediately thinking it was something more sinester! School boy error.

Thanks for the help though- I do appreciate it. Wonder how much porsche are gonna charge for a new housing/mechanism?! Either way I won’t be messing with another second hand one as I potentially have 2 here which are worn beyond use.

Thanks mate. thumbsup
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5128
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only ever replace the whole lot .. most garages i think wont just change the electric part .. a little risky or maybe just profitable Dont know

Im not sure of the cost but about £150 springs to mind .

Trust me i do exactly the same .. its got to be the most complicated part .. its got to be the can bus .. erm .. its the fuse lol .

EDIT ..

Not sure if you work on different Porsches but if you do then email me with what info you need .. i have a " few " manuals that might be of use 997 onwards .. 996 and its on the site here Smile

De.Mort@virginmedia.com
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Gixxer996
Trainee


Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 97



PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks mate- I’ll look into getting a price tomo, but that sort of cost would be fine.

Also thanks for the offer on manuals, but sadly I don’t get to work on real cars anymore Sad these days I look after remanufactured engines for one of large oem’s (from a design and test perspective). Sadly this means the only time I get to spin the spanner’s is on my 996 or one of the my bikes.

Thanks again for your help- this forum would be pointless without the effort yourself and others put in
worship
 
  
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