Newbie saying hello and seeking thoughts on 997 turbo

Hi Guys

I'm new to Porsche, but have always wanted one.
I'm now ready to buy one as a weekend car and can't make my mind up over the 997 gen 1 turbo manual vs the gen 2 pdk.
I've done the web searches, trawled through the forums, and lots of people have quite polar opinions.
Lots of threads are old now, so I just wondered if anyone has any thoughts.
My budget is 60-65k, which means I can pick up a low mileage gen 1 manual or a medium mileage gen 2 pdk.

Does the gen one feel dated to drive? compared to gen 2?

Is the gen 1 Mezger engine more special? - I know it has racing pedigree, which makes it very desirable and collectible for some.

Is the PDK too easy? My daily drive is an E class AMG saloon with 550bhp, very fast but slightly un-involving.

Would welcome and value some comments,

cheers

Asad

I have been fortunate to own a Gen 1.5 Turbo and now a 2012 Turbo S PDk. The gen2 in my opinion is better. They are both great cars however and you will enjoy owning either one.

The budget you have could stretch to a Gen 2 Turbo but may have a higher mileage. If your budget is regid you can consider sticking to the Gen 1 but with a lower mileage.

Good luck with your search

I have a manual car and I love it.
The PDK will be fantastic too if you are happy with having both an auto for your daily and your toy.
It's easy to say go and drive both and then decide but this can prove difficult with few dealers wanting their clean sparkly examples being driven out in the rain and salt. Neither would you want to drive hundreds of miles initially to potentially waste the time of a private seller whilst you get a feel for which type of car you may settle on.
Try and join your local group and get along to a meeting or two when you know that certain choice cars may be there and speak with the owners beforehand with a view to cadging a passenger ride in both to see what you think.
If you are particularly impatient or believe you have found a car for sale that you may be interested then go and see one/it and push hard for a test drive as only then will you really know if you are going to gell with the car.
You have stated the reasons for both options being a sound choice and they both are so its now down to you personal preference on which one you find more special.
The manual .1 would be the slightly old school choice and possibly a better long term investment as all performance cars become more refined and easier/less exciting to drive . The .2 PDK will be a scorcher that will perform so effortlessly - like your daily - that you may hanker after the (still blistering but more analogue) manual car.
There are a few manual .2's around but they will cost you £10k over a similar .1 and I am not certain that equates when the .1 cradles the Mezger.
When I bought my car two years ago, I could have just about afforded a higher mileage PDK but my weekend cars have always been manual and I was more than happy to make the significant saving.
Nice dilemma you face so take your time and have fun enjoying the search for your weekend toy.

:thumb:

thanks for the replies guys

There is a silver pdk with 66k on the clock at the Porsche centre in Tonbridge.

Perhaps the mileage will put some off, its just under £65k

911v have a manual car with low 40s mileage. similar money.

The issue with the manual cars i suspect is the stress of having to get the rev ranges checked etc, hence need to buy with care

gonna keep looking and reading, but really appreciate both your comments

Right.... :thumb:

Firstly are you a stick or are you a slush box !! its important. forth biggest commitment after marriage, mortgage, colour then gearbox !!

Lets get the Gen 2 out the way, commercial grade 3.8 engine, good, seems strong but still yet to be proven given most of the mileages, but, I'll tread carefully here, flaws could still develop. The GEN 2 is the more refined car, its quieter, easier, less dramatic and just that step up if used all of the time, if that's what you want. I do get what some say, but then given the GT's are the holy grail you are further away with a Gen 2 than with a Gen 1.

Gen 1 Turbo. Its not just me, most tuners or dealers will tell you where they would put their hard earned, it has a legendary Dry sump GT1 Le Lemans based race engine, one that the Gen 2 could only wet dream about. Its more raw, less refined, sounds better once you sought the standard exhaust and if power is your thing, well sky's the limit.

There will be a fight and you will see most owners be it 1 or 2's opinion, and WTF to my post - but in your heart of heart's you should know what you want !!

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

asad7860 said:

thanks for the replies guys

There is a silver pdk with 66k on the clock at the Porsche centre in Tonbridge.

Perhaps the mileage will put some off, its just under £65k

911v have a manual car with low 40s mileage. similar money.

The issue with the manual cars i suspect is the stress of having to get the rev ranges checked etc, hence need to buy with care

gonna keep looking and reading, but really appreciate both your comments

Click to expand...

I think sellers like 911v would insist on only buying in cars that pass close scrutiny. Always worth a phonecall to any sellers with cars of interest to pick their brains and see if they are looking to offer keen deals!

Boba fett said:

Gen 1 Turbo. Its not just me, most tuners or dealers will tell you where they would put their hard earned, it has a legendary Dry sump GT1 Le Lemans based race engine, one that the Gen 2 could only wet dream about. Its more raw, less refined, sounds better once you sought the standard exhaust and if power is your thing, well sky's the limit.

Click to expand...

Boba is right that the limits are higher with the Gen1 engine, Tuners have done some serious builds based on them but you also have to spend serious ££££'s to get there... A Gen2 PDK is already quicker out of the box but give it a simple remap and exhaust and it will be come blisteringly fast with not a lot on the road able to catch it... Oh and it's more modern

Basically those with a 997.1 will all (mostly) recommend a 997.1 whish those that have a PDK will recommend that... Listen to the guys that have driven both, 90% of them will say the PDK :lol: :thumb:

AdeD said:

Boba fett said:

Gen 1 Turbo. Its not just me, most tuners or dealers will tell you where they would put their hard earned, it has a legendary Dry sump GT1 Le Lemans based race engine, one that the Gen 2 could only wet dream about. Its more raw, less refined, sounds better once you sought the standard exhaust and if power is your thing, well sky's the limit.

Click to expand...

Boba is right that the limits are higher with the Gen1 engine, Tuners have done some serious builds based on them but you also have to spend serious ££££'s to get there... A Gen2 PDK is already quicker out of the box but give it a simple remap and exhaust and it will be come blisteringly fast with not a lot on the road able to catch it... Oh and it's more modern

Basically those with a 997.1 will all (mostly) recommend a 997.1 whish those that have a PDK will recommend that... Listen to the guys that have driven both, 90% of them will say the PDK :lol: :thumb:

Click to expand...

Hmmmm, why would someone that wants the interaction, control and involvement of a manual want an automatic.

I have an auto in the form of DCT in my M3 as a daily and its good, very good in fact, some say better than a PDK, I like it, but if it was a special toy for weekends and high days I'd take a manual all day every day.

My initial post focused on this point, and after all my wife can only drive an auto, its a whole different license.

Boba fett said:

AdeD said:

Boba fett said:

Gen 1 Turbo. Its not just me, most tuners or dealers will tell you where they would put their hard earned, it has a legendary Dry sump GT1 Le Lemans based race engine, one that the Gen 2 could only wet dream about. Its more raw, less refined, sounds better once you sought the standard exhaust and if power is your thing, well sky's the limit.

Click to expand...

Boba is right that the limits are higher with the Gen1 engine, Tuners have done some serious builds based on them but you also have to spend serious ££££'s to get there... A Gen2 PDK is already quicker out of the box but give it a simple remap and exhaust and it will be come blisteringly fast with not a lot on the road able to catch it... Oh and it's more modern

Basically those with a 997.1 will all (mostly) recommend a 997.1 whish those that have a PDK will recommend that... Listen to the guys that have driven both, 90% of them will say the PDK :lol: :thumb:

Click to expand...

Hmmmm, why would someone that wants the interaction, control and involvement of a manual want an automatic.

I have an auto in the form of DCT in my M3 as a daily and its good, very good in fact, some say better than a PDK, I like it, but if it was a special toy for weekends and high days I'd take a manual all day every day.

My initial post focused on this point, and after all my wife can only drive an auto, its a whole different license.

Click to expand...

I get that, im a massive manual fan but the PDK converted me, when you flick to Sport Plus and switch to manual with the paddles its every bit as involving.. and on another note it's that sodding fast you physically couldn't change gears quick enough if it was a manual

The thing is no Gen 2 owner has today, and given all the posts about this subject, been able to answer..... :?: :?: :?:

If the Gen 2 is so much more refined, grown up quieter, cosseted, easier, everyday and more effortless than the Gen 1.....

That makes the Gen 1 much closer to a GT3 / RS (but much faster) and most consider them as the holly grail :?:

I did not buy mine because it is easy, quiet or refined, others cars do that better :thumb:

Just IMO though. :thumb:

AdeD said:

Boba fett said:

AdeD said:

Boba fett said:

Gen 1 Turbo. Its not just me, most tuners or dealers will tell you where they would put their hard earned, it has a legendary Dry sump GT1 Le Lemans based race engine, one that the Gen 2 could only wet dream about. Its more raw, less refined, sounds better once you sought the standard exhaust and if power is your thing, well sky's the limit.

Click to expand...

Boba is right that the limits are higher with the Gen1 engine, Tuners have done some serious builds based on them but you also have to spend serious ££££'s to get there... A Gen2 PDK is already quicker out of the box but give it a simple remap and exhaust and it will be come blisteringly fast with not a lot on the road able to catch it... Oh and it's more modern

Basically those with a 997.1 will all (mostly) recommend a 997.1 whish those that have a PDK will recommend that... Listen to the guys that have driven both, 90% of them will say the PDK :lol: :thumb:

Click to expand...

Hmmmm, why would someone that wants the interaction, control and involvement of a manual want an automatic.

I have an auto in the form of DCT in my M3 as a daily and its good, very good in fact, some say better than a PDK, I like it, but if it was a special toy for weekends and high days I'd take a manual all day every day.

My initial post focused on this point, and after all my wife can only drive an auto, its a whole different license.

Click to expand...

I get that, im a massive manual fan but the PDK converted me, when you flick to Sport Plus and switch to manual with the paddles its every bit as involving.. and on another note it's that sodding fast you physically couldn't change gears quick enough if it was a manual

Click to expand...

Its not as involving though, you can carry on saying that all day long if you wish, its not though.

At the recent 9e open day I had the chance to talk to a couple owners of 911 turbo's with over 1000 Bhp with manual gearboxes.
They all said "it's not an issue, you get used to it". Good enough for me

Hi OP. I was in the same position about 6 months ago. Here's my two pence.

Couldn't decide which 911 to buy. My thoughts started with a gen 1 c4s...moving quickly to a gen 2, but eventually settled at a 997.1 turbo. But I knew it had to be a manual. I had a relatively quick BMW (not an M) and while it was brisk, the autobox left me feeling slightly underwhelmed. Point and squirt got boring, and I'm no driving god so didn't want to push it all the time to feel engaged. The turbo is a weekend car, I'm usually on the train/bus during the week, so it's really special to jump in an (subjectively speaking) beautiful car, which with being a manual I don't need to ring the neck out of to feel engaged and have fun.

Disclaimer: I didn't try a pdk (but I didn't need to as I knew I wanted a manual). My advice is try both whilst keeping in mind how you're planning to use it, e.g. if used daily then the pdk makes complete sense. Good luck with your search.

Bobba why I bought my mezger turbo, he so passionate lol
I wanted auto against bobba advice but I wanted mezger it just feels special!

I drove a .1 manual but it was too much like the 4S manual I had so didn't do it for me.

We are all different and you need to drive them to know, as soon as I drove my 1.5 tip turbo I was sold and hooked.

What a great position to be in, I'm sure they are all great! I have two close friends one with a 991.1 4S and one with a 991.2 gts and I still think mine holds up in the looks department.

Good luck!!! And enjoy

asad7860 said:

I'm now ready to buy one as a weekend car and can't make my mind up over the 997 gen 1 turbo manual vs the gen 2 pdk.

(1) Does the gen one feel dated to drive? compared to gen 2?

(2) Is the gen 1 Mezger engine more special? - I know it has racing pedigree, which makes it very desirable and collectible for some.

(3) Is the PDK too easy?

Click to expand...

Hi Asad

:welcome: to 911uk

(1) The Gen2 car that you've seen advertised at Tonbridge is a standard Turbo which hasn't quite got the extra oomph that the 'S' has. It's more powerful than the Gen1 but in my opinion it's only the PDK box that would make a Gen1 feel dated to drive. I accept that the PDK would be a great step up from my Tiptronic but I'd never be able to justify the extra £'s between the two.

(2) The Mezger based engine is iconic but the Gen2 cars have a great reputation too. Neither are rare so it's only the low mileage examples that will ever be collectable. All are desirable.

(3) Easy? - Yes. Too Easy? - :dont know: I'm definitely in the camp that prefers to have both hands on the wheel when a 911 Turbo is on boost.

Only you can decide whether a PDK will suit you and your 'needs'. If you take a PDK car for a test drive make sure that you give it a good run in 'M' so that you experience the best of both worlds that these cars can deliver.

You'll be very hard pushed to find a Gen 2 manual so your choice is exactly as you've identified.

Good Luck :thumbs: