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johne
Silverstone


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 115



PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: shock absorber question Reply with quote

done a trackday at donnington last week .while going through the old hairpin .the car started to move around.. so I think its time to change the munro shocks.dosent notice while driving on the road but plan to do a few more trackdays next year. so some advice please .do I get new springs and shocks do I buy a kit. really don't know which way to go .or which ones to buy .don't want it to stiff but deffinatlely need it more sporty than it is .any advice appreciated
 
  
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wozy
Imola


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 803
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:03 pm    Post subject: Re: shock absorber question Reply with quote

johne wrote:
done a trackday at donnington last week .while going through the old hairpin .the car started to move around.. so I think its time to change the munro shocks.dosent notice while driving on the road but plan to do a few more trackdays next year. so some advice please .do I get new springs and shocks do I buy a kit. really don't know which way to go .or which ones to buy .don't want it to stiff but deffinatlely need it more sporty than it is .any advice appreciated


I went koni fsds and m033 springs. Ideal imho for A and B fast road driving. If I was just tracking the car than I'd probs have gone m030'or modern equivalent...... possible fsds m033 springs and m030 arbs, or the likes of uber modern and fully adjustable onlins etc , though personaly I think the latter possibly overkill on a 20 plus years old car. Just imo mind. Smile

For road use, I truly believe I've gone the correct route. However I've replaced everything from top mounts to every single suspension component. It's not just a matter of springs and dampers imo to get the best from these cars, mileage becomes less important and a lot comes down to age and degradation of suspension parts, after all the newest is 20 years old now.

This is my rebuild:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=233&t=1537100
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Porsche Cars of Great Britain launched the 993 in the UK in early December 1993 registering 12 x UK cars on the 6th & 7th of that month; mine is one of them.

993 C2. MBM. C4 mounts, RSRs, RS Short shifter. RS steering wheel. FSDs & M033s
Previous 2.7S, 3.2, 964 and 968CS
 
  
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tim993
Shanghai


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4986
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FSDs are ok - but I'm keen try Ohlins or PSS10s (<- think they are called that). Don't think the FSDs tie a heavy car like the turbo down as well as I'd like. KW dampers much much better, but their springs are off the scale too firm for the condition of the average UK road. That said FSDs with standard Porsche springs aren't bad at all, jut think there could be better options out there - albeit at a price.
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1995 993 turbo
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Endoman
Imola


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 874
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run Bilstein PSS10's from Gert Carnewal, spring rates are not too firm for road use and semi adjustable. Good enough for Walter Rohl. The Ohlins look superb and have an excellent reputation. Have a chat with Chris Franklin at CoG he'll point you in the right direction and can set it up to your preferences.
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Sutton
Monza


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key is finding a suspension specialist who understands our cars, the effects of different suspension set ups, and your intended use so that the right options are presented to you.

There are a number of these guys. I would rate 9M, Tuthills and Center Gravity but there are others.
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wozy
Imola


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 803
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suspension can really be a nightmare, it's not like you can normally try before you buy Very Happy

I travel to the Pyrenees at least once a year, and there Tarmac is soooooo smooth and grippy compared to our shocking roads. Reason I went down the fsds and m033 route is that I do more driving here than there. The roads here are quite undulating (well the areas I travel seem to be) but very rarely do I find my setup too soft.

However if I lived in somewhere like Spain, I'd have gone firmer me thinks. The setup I have really is a great mix of comfort v firmness v throw ability but I'm the first to admit, for here in the UK roads it's imo just about right, but possibly too soft for constant track days or Spanish blasts. Smile
_________________
Porsche Cars of Great Britain launched the 993 in the UK in early December 1993 registering 12 x UK cars on the 6th & 7th of that month; mine is one of them.

993 C2. MBM. C4 mounts, RSRs, RS Short shifter. RS steering wheel. FSDs & M033s
Previous 2.7S, 3.2, 964 and 968CS
 
  
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ChrisT70
Barcelona


Joined: 26 Mar 2015
Posts: 1441
Location: The Sea


PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: shock absorber question Reply with quote

johne wrote:
done a trackday at donnington last week .while going through the old hairpin .the car started to move around.. so I think its time to change the munro shocks.dosent notice while driving on the road but plan to do a few more trackdays next year. so some advice please .do I get new springs and shocks do I buy a kit. really don't know which way to go .or which ones to buy .don't want it to stiff but deffinatlely need it more sporty than it is .any advice appreciated


to be honest, all cars when pushed hard through the old hairpin will move around. if you are pushing too hard you can go through it sideways and then backwards. Thumb

how old are the shocks, bushes and tyres before you rush to condemn them?
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cableguy
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 1323
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John,

I went for the Bilstein B8's with Eibach Pro Springs set at RS ride height, discussed, supplied & fitted by Centre Gravity. Now like myself you came from a 996GT2 and I would describe them as very similar to the OEM/H&R setup of the standard car. Firm with a little compliance for our poor roads. Maybe a little too firm for some but they do suit a slightly more aggressive driving style without being too crashy on really poor roads.

HTH.

C.
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johne
Silverstone


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 115



PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: shock absorber question Reply with quote

ok so it was a bit more than moving around I spun once and managed to catch it the next time . but what a great circuit. thanks for the advice .if you don't mind me asking cableguy what sort of price am I looking at for the same set up at center of gravity. but every one of these set ups are better than what I have
 
  
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johne
Silverstone


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 115



PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: shock absorber question Reply with quote

just found a receipt for new springs and shocks in 2008 from camtune
 
  
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cableguy
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 1323
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,

Bear in mind that the new springs & shocks you mention in 2008 are now nearly ten years old.

Springs & Shocks are circa £1000 supplied and then you have labour, setting up etc.
I spent a good few thousand with Centre Gravity as I did a lot more than springs & shocks. I had my steering rack refurbished, new top mounts, new V and toe arms, wishbone kit, ARB bushes, engine mounts etc.
My thinking was to get the whole lot done in one go which gives me more time in the drivers seat. Wink

C.
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johne
Silverstone


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 115



PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: shock absorber question Reply with quote

So another question. Can i tell the difference between m30 and m33 springs. Physically any marks length or size .as I think the ride height had to be changed to be imported from the states
 
  
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Desert Dragon
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 351



PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These don't rust like the Bilsteins.

http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt65_2288_-cma81-cmo109/Porsche/993--911--1994-98/Ohlins-Road-and-Track-Supension/


http://mickgardnerracing.com is where I would send mine to be set up.
 
  
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johne
Silverstone


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 115



PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow £3,650
 
  
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cableguy
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 1323
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no doubt that the Ohlins gear is top notch but a little OTT for the odd track day and weekend hoon.

Bilstein, Koni & KW for a quarter of the price are still excellent packages with the right springs and setup.

C.
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Endoman
Imola


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 874
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give the Billies a squirt of Wurth clear wax that will stall the corrosion. Typical thorougnness by Chris Franklin who did that on mine.
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tyinsky
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 273
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS9s on mine, rebuilt this year by Bilstein as they were getting on a bit and fitted with new bushes and wishbones by Center Gravity.

Completely happy. However, if I was buying a new set I'd have to have those Ohlins.
 
  
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tim993
Shanghai


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4986
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd understood the Ohlins kit was a road based set up - i.e. not aimed at track cars?
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"I don't know what it is about peace conferences, but they always seem to attract terrorists, extremists and nutterists."

1995 993 turbo
2015 981 GTS
 
  
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cableguy
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 1323
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tim993 wrote:
I'd understood the Ohlins kit was a road based set up - i.e. not aimed at track cars?


I'd definitely say they are a little more track biased. Here's the Ohlins garb:

The Öhlins Road & Track range for Porsche covers a major part of all 993 models with kits for all needs. It's a kit designed for track day use and club racing but with the DFV technology it also offers superb handling and comfort on the way to and from the tracks.

The Road & Track kit with DFV technology is a kit now developed with Porsche specific settings. The DFV technology acts like a high and low speed blow off valve and with adjustable compression and rebound the days of compromise are over.
This kit works surprisingly well on the road as well as at high speed on racing tracks, whether it is trackdays or racing. The settings have been developed using both shake rigs and testing by racing drivers to make sure the Öhlins DNA is present.


C.
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Chris-mac
Trainee


Joined: 14 May 2016
Posts: 67



PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before you throw your money at suspension looking for a solution, what tyres are you running and what track pressures?

I track my C4 upto 15 times a year and focus more on tyres than anything else, my suspension does need renewing as its old H&R springs with original monroe shocks be it on a sports set up but it give lots of feel and I know when it’s going to let go, where as the stiffer suspension just lets go. I can keep up with most stuff on track and lap donington in the 1:40’s.

I’m not saying new suspension won’t solve your issues but try toyo r888r’s at 24psi front and 26psi rear (cold) with heavy duty roll bars and you might feel differently about your suspension.

I’ll be at donington on 30th of this month if you fancy a run out, I too love that track.

Regards Chris
 
  
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