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Debris in oil - can you identify?

coullstar

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I changed the oil on the car about 700miles ago, not long after I bought it, as it had a sticky tappet.

The oil in it hadn't been for maybe around 2000miles. I found some small metal flakes that were magnetic but didn't look like bearing material.

So I dropped the filter last night after 700miles and found another flake the same appearance and again magnetic. Nothing else in the filter.

Im not jumping to conclusions about what it is but just wondering if anyone recognizes where they may be from?

There very thin and almost bronze like in colour. They also have very slight grooves like machining marks on them. Engine has done 30k miles and was new in 2010, 3.4 with the last revision IMS.

Oil has been sent to Millers for analysis and Im going to drop the sump for a look.

Any thoughts, is there parts of the chain system that it could be?
 

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I have rebuilt a few times and I can't think of anything that looks like that with those lines on it, they do look uniform. To me it looks like plating has flaked off something but whatever it is, it's failing.

I would also fit a magnetic sump plug for the future and like you say pull the sump, easy to do and it may give you more bits that have made it to the sump but were too big to go through the oil pick up. Be prepared for around 1/2 litre of oil still sat in the sump base when you drop it and you will need Loctite 5900 sealant when replacing it as there is no gasket.
 
I got mine from FVD, it matches my sump :D

D911 & Euro also sell them
 
Yes having a look in the sump is a good idea because anything that makes it to the filter has to go through the oil pump first.
The pump only has a very small clearance between its moving parts so can crush/grind bits and turn them into flakes. Not sure what the inside of a 996 pump looks like but some types have machining on them which can leave marks on the flakes.

Strangely you flakes look too big to have got through the oil strainer on the pump suction so they may well be that big because the pump has squashed them a little like using a rolling pin on some pastry if you know what I mean!

Also any bits from the cylinder heads also have to make it through the chylinderhead return pumps

Mac
 
Hmmmm
Do you have any history of it ever having some oil seals replaced post engine replacement?


This looks to me like it's something do with either crankshaft front or rear seals or cam end plugs. The latter maybe plated as well as plastic coated and that plating disturbed during removal or fitting. I'm sure my old cam end plugs were that same bronze colour on the inside (discarded now though so can't compare)

Appart from oil analysis I'd pull the sump have a very close look at the oil pump pickup before running it anymore.
 
Wait to hear what the oil analysis reveals then share it with Grant or Baz at Hartech for a second opinion. Trying to guess what those flakes are off is a pure guess - perhaps with more info from the analysis, Hartech may be best placed to advise you?
 
Harv said:
Hmmmm
Do you have any history of it ever having some oil seals replaced post engine replacement?


This looks to me like it's something do with either crankshaft front or rear seals or cam end plugs. The latter maybe plated as well as plastic coated and that plating disturbed during removal or fitting. I'm sure my old cam end plugs were that same bronze colour on the inside (discarded now though so can't compare)

Appart from oil analysis I'd pull the sump have a very close look at the oil pump pickup before running it anymore.

Not sure, I'll need to check history. Thanks for the suggestions, I'm not too worried at the moment but oil analysis will be interesting.

Does anyone have a good set of base analysis for reference? I know it totally depends on engine but I suppose they will highlight any unusually high content.
 
There's loads of "Blackstone" analysis posted on US porsche sites which you can get averages from. Very rough rule of thumb you want under 10ppm for your wear metals based on 5000 mile drain intervals
 
Mac996t said:
Not sure what the inside of a 996 pump looks like but some types have machining on them which can leave marks on the flakes.

Strangely you flakes look too big to have got through the oil strainer on the pump suction so they may well be that big because the pump has squashed them a little like using a rolling pin on some pastry if you know what I mean!

Also any bits from the cylinder heads also have to make it through the chylinderhead return pumps

The main oil pump gears have a very tight clearance and are smooth so they wouldn't have made any marks on this debris on its way through

The scavenger pump (cylinder head pump) at each side of the engine have very tight clearances and would have possibly seized if it had gone into there.

Mine seized solid when a thin bit of timing chain roller went into it.

38556877252_c910e84cae_z.jpg
 
Oil report came back and no issues apparent. I had a bit of a heart stopping moment as the Mo and B levels were pretty high but after a chat with Millers they said thats inherent to the NT oil so nothing to worry about.

He said he saw nothing to cause any alarm at all. Cant fault their service either as sent the oil away on Tuesday and that was the report in this morning.

:thumb:

Next is sump drop and see.
 
I'm not familiar with the internals of the 996 engine but the lines remind me of the inside of an oil seal

90311-42026-TOYOTA-FRONT-CRANKSHAFT-SEAL.jpg


That's a crankshaft seal off an MR2 off which is what it reminds me of ive no idea if there's similar inside a 996 or how it would fail.
 

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