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Grey996
Silverstone


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Very heavy clutch pedal and difficulty going into gear???? Reply with quote

I've had the car for almost a year and the clutch has always been heavy but over the last few weeks it's become very stiff and it's also difficult to engage the gears especially first which I sometimes have to force home.

There aren't any signs that point to the clutch itself thankfully, no slipping at all and stalls as expected when starting off in a high gear but it might need bleeding, I've also read about the clutch pedal spring but haven't been able to find it!

The shifting does improve as it warms up though and it's more trouble shifting down than up so that leads to the gearbox. There's nothing in the history as to when the oil was last changed so it's probably overdue.

What do people think or could it something completely different?

Thanks

Simon
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askgeez
Suzuka


Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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Location: London/ Essex


PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be very careful. My previous c4s was heavy. No slipping .

20/20 hindsight and £5k later , ultimately was clutch slave cylinder.
But it ****** 1st and 2nd gear and syncros. New clutch and flywheel and obviously slave cylinder.... Sad frustrated
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Demort
Estoril


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree

Im thinking the cover plate is required so a clutch basically , you may find a slave cyl / release arm are also needed but its a box out before a full diagnosis .. the helper spring wont have an effect on crunching into gear .. thats the clutch not moving far enough away from the flywheel so still driveing the input shaft ( gearbox ) basically ....

Also known as dragging which can be from oil contamination although i dont think so in this case .

You need it fixed sooner rather than later as you will be needing syncros if you keep driveing it .
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Grey996
Silverstone


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch, it's only just back on the road after the water pump, exhaust and alternator, it's busting my balls at the moment!

Is this a job for a specialist or can my very good 'normal' garage do it. I'll need specialist knowledge to the check the IMS while they're at it I suppose and any other issues that may be lurking so will probably play safe?
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wasz
Kyalami


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 1866


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anyone can do it... but a specialist will have seen the job before, so might save some headscratching time
 
  
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Harv
Suzuka


Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 1138



PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the cost of the salve cylinder and some fluid I would probably replace this first to see if things improve. You could try just bleeding the system but you'll do almost as much prep as replacing it.

This is the cheapest I've seen https://www.frazerpart.com/acatalog/996__all_C2__C4__C4S____997__all_C2__C2S__C4___C4S__Clutch_Slave_Cylinder.html?utm_source=GoogleMerchant&utm_medium=Mash&utm_campaign=MerchantFeed&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjuOEqNXQ1wIVLrXtCh3tig5pEAQYASABEgI58_D_BwE

It's located on the passenger side (n/s) of the gearbox above the driveshaft output flange and isn't too difficult to swap if you have a trolley jack, axle stands and some basic tools. Remove rear wheel on that side and all will become obvious.
 
  
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cheshire911
Paul Ricard


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3476



PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd recommend Mike at Sports & Classic in case the gearbox needs attention - the 1st/2nd synchros is pretty common and around £4k to fix (subject to what he finds) and that's on top of the clutch fix - you may need a new flywheel also as well as the clutch and slave cylinder (it is pointless putting back the old clutch even if its not slipping).

The synchro between 1st/2nd is delicate and it only takes a couple of slammed gear changes to knacker it - its common on manual 996/997 NA, Turbo and GT cars.

Whilst the gearbox is out if it needs attention it is a job for a specialist as it requires specialist tools and presses and gauges to set the pre-loads etc.
Thats why I suggest Mike becasue if you choose someone who does the clutch and then find synchro issue later, its another gearbox out job and there are few people you can trust with a gearbox rebuild on this car - but many who can be trusted with a clutch replacement.

As Demort says - needs fixing sooner rather than later to prevent even more damage to the synchros.
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askgeez
Suzuka


Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1244
Location: London/ Essex


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire911 wrote:
I'd recommend Mike at Sports & Classic in case the gearbox needs attention - the 1st/2nd synchros is pretty common and around £4k to fix (subject to what he finds) and that's on top of the clutch fix - you may need a new flywheel also as well as the clutch and slave cylinder (it is pointless putting back the old clutch even if its not slipping).

The synchro between 1st/2nd is delicate and it only takes a couple of slammed gear changes to knacker it - its common on manual 996/997 NA, Turbo and GT cars.

Whilst the gearbox is out if it needs attention it is a job for a specialist as it requires specialist tools and presses and gauges to set the pre-loads etc.
Thats why I suggest Mike becasue if you choose someone who does the clutch and then find synchro issue later, its another gearbox out job and there are few people you can trust with a gearbox rebuild on this car - but many who can be trusted with a clutch replacement.

As Demort says - needs fixing sooner rather than later to prevent even more damage to the synchros.



It was mike who fixed my 4s Thumb
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cheshire911
Paul Ricard


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3476



PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, Mikes the man. He does a lot of gearbox work - private as well as traders who send the work to him. I suspect the OP needs a gearbox strip and rebuild given he states he has difficulty selecting first and generally changing down gear.But Mike can check before he starts on the clutch.

That will be on top of sorting clutch, flywheel and slave cylinder.
If its a high mileage example, Mike might find the pinion is shot also.
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Grey996
Silverstone


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well with everything crossed I've bought a slave cylinder so will try that first.

If it is then the clutch I'll have to bite the bullet but if it's the gearbox as well I'll be setting the pile of junk on fire!
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Grey996
Silverstone


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it Pentosin CHF 202 that I need?

Thanks
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cheshire911
Paul Ricard


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3476



PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Logical start to try the slave cylinder first. Another member in here when he had a 996 Turbo had a heavy clutch when he bought the car and thought nothing of it. It went for a service at an indy in Brighouse who reported bavk it needed a new clutch as the heaviness was the symptom even though it was not slipping and there was no difficulty in selecting 1st/2nd gear or any gear for that matter.

He declined the recommendation but a few weeks later back it went for - a new clutch and I think a flywheel as well as new slave cylinder. Every persons situation no matter how similar the symptoms could be very different. Perhaps your slave cylinder might be the solution. I don't know.
Fingers crossed for you.

But one difference between his situation of heavy clutch pedal (it was always rather heavy ever since he bought it and gradually became heavier in time) and your situation, is that you describe difficulty in the gear selection and having to force it into first gear where he had no such issues.
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Grey996
Silverstone


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, it was Revolution Porsche in Brighouse that did my inspection when I bought it. There was no mention of clutch issues in their report even though the pedal has always been heavy.

I have just reread the report though and one of the advisories that I'd forgotten about was that the gear linkage has been cable tied. No more details but I'm guessing this isn't a Porsche upgrade so I'll investigate this further!
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Demort
Estoril


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3502
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grey996 wrote:
Is it Pentosin CHF 202 that I need?

Thanks


Pentosin is only for the Turbo .

C2 and its fed from the brake fluid resevoir .

The cable ties is no big problem and i wouldn,t worry about it ..

The cables normally have a clip that hold them in place in a bracket .. this can break so people put a cable tie around it all just in case .
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Grey996
Silverstone


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
Grey996 wrote:
Is it Pentosin CHF 202 that I need?

Thanks


Pentosin is only for the Turbo .

C2 and its fed from the brake fluid resevoir .

The cable ties is no big problem and i wouldn,t worry about it ..

The cables normally have a clip that hold them in place in a bracket .. this can break so people put a cable tie around it all just in case .


Great, thanks on both points, at least the cables are one thing to tick off.

So standard Dot 4 brake fluid then?
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Demort
Estoril


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup .
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Grey996
Silverstone


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's going in next week, I phoned up a localish Indy who didn't think it sounded like the slave cylinder and as I can't find anything in the pretty comprehensive history about the clutch having been replaced before I think it needs a proper assessment.

I'd also forgotten to factor in the track day i did a few weeks ago which probably has something to do with it!
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Grey996
Silverstone


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
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Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a call from the garage, it's new clutch time. They'll let me know about IMS etc when they strip it down.
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Grey996
Silverstone


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All done, IMS is fine, no play or leaks so they recommended to leave it. Nothing else needed doing but they did fit the slave cylinder as I'd bought it anyway, £660 delivered back to my home so I'm happy with that.
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coullstar
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Joined: 15 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did they check the flywheel?
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