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nickson
Newbie


Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:38 pm    Post subject: 996 brake upgrades Reply with quote

first track day in 996 c2 3.4 today. one of the main downfalls was brakes.

car had fresh high temp fluid, but got huge brake judder after one session. and tbh the brakes didnt feel massively great overall.

are there any really good brake kits available, with 6 pot calipers/floating discs etc.

i had alcon 6 pots on my last race car and they were awesome.

first thing i want on the car is mega brakes, as they just install confidence.

car is predominantly a track car. so proper race calipers without seals are no issue etc

(i realise just a set of new discs, and decent pagid rs pads etc would probably do the job, but i prefer to have the brakes specced up, and it future proofs the car too, for further power increases etc)
 
  
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1839



PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worth spending a tenner at your local OPC before laying out thousands?

 
  
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crash7
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 493



PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no cheap fix.

High temp fluid, stainless brake lines and good pads, pagid RS help, as do 997 GT3 brake ducts, but they still go soft on track.

6 pot calipers and discs 350mm off a 996 GT3.2 would bring gains but the upgrade is expensive, you need complete front carriers/uprights and all the associated parts, wheels bearings, stub axles etc

Once added to the cost of the calipers, discs and pads your looking at circa £3k in parts.

Giro Disc do floating front discs for the C2, the discs are two piece, 22mm bigger than existing (318 v 340) lighter in weight and slotted so no holes to fill up with brake dust.

Stopping power would remain the same, although I don't see this as an issue as I can still bring the ABS on with AD08r's in the dry, but heat dissipation/fade should be improved.

However I am struggling to find any first hand experience on the Giro's, although this is probably the route I will go as £3k for front brakes makes no economical sense.

GT3 master cylinder is also supposed to help, but again this is feel as oppose to fade.

If you find any alternative solutions I would be keen to hear about them!!
 
  
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1839



PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's the PPBB option of 6 pot units from the Cayenne Turbo on the front with 350mm discs, keeping the standard uprights.

Requires some machining of the callipers.

The old front callipers are moved to the rear in this scenario, along with the standard front discs IIRC.
 
  
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nickson
Newbie


Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes i looked into gt3 upgrade, im told u can just run spacers/adaptors rather than complete front uprights. but your still going to spend a couple of grand.

the alcon calipers i ran last time round, were around £1500 a pair, then fabricate custom brackets to mount, and then disc options might be possible to use some newer gt3 2 peice discs etc?

i was just wondering if anyone had already put a kit together.

the alcons i have before were incredible, and 365mm discs, the car was 500bhp and you could do an hour on track braking from 160mph every lap and have zero fade whatsoever, and huge braking forces. so im quite keen to have something similar again. discs prob dont need to be as big as car isnt 500bhp, but if i could couple up the alcon calipers with some gt3 discs or similar 2 piece? i think that could work.
 
  
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Paz
Trainee


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 87
Location: Leicester

1998 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What setup is the car running, suspension, tyres, weight-saving mods etc?

Might be worth having a chat with Nick at Uber9s
https://uber9s.com/996-gt/
 
  
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nickson
Newbie


Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

car is coming apart over winter for full prep. will have full cage/buckets/harness/kw coilovers, full polybushes, sticky tyres, (brakes) etc etc.
 
  
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NLW73
Barcelona


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 1275
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick

try those cooling ducts as cheap from porsche. buy them from the local Porsche OPC as they are much cheaper than design 911 or other middle men.

997 GT3 front and rear brake ducts - blow me down it was like just over £20 for all 4.

parts are:

997 GT3 Front Ducts - £2.18 each plus vat
997.341.483.92
997.341.484.92.

997 Rears - £6.30 each plus vat
997.331.487.92
997.331.488.92

also try better fluid and stainless steel brake lines? also uprated pads will help like the RS29s.
_________________
997 C2s Schwarz
 
  
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Armagreggon85
Trainee


Joined: 04 Jan 2017
Posts: 77



PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar experience in my 3.4 c2. First time on track at donington and the brakes were juddery mush after 3 laps.

I fit new standard pagid discs, castrol srf fluid, gt3 front ducts and pfc 08 pads.

My car is predominantly a road car with a few track days so i take the pfc pads out for normal road driving as they are a bit noisy unless you're hammering them but with the pfc pads fitted i find my brakes are absolutely more than sufficient.

Stopping power is great, 01 compound is more aggressive than 08 if you need more, and having since used them twice at silverstone and twice at the nurburgring i have yet to experience any brake fade at all. Brake pedal is always rock hard.

They were pricey, about £450 for the full set, but I couldnt be happier
 
  
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crash7
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 493



PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is generally a lack of cobbling / innovation, most choose proven paths usually from within the food chain, C2 - GT3 - RS - Cup - RSR etc - In essence Porsche have done all the R&D and as such it's an easy path to follow, the downside is cost.

There are exceptions but compared to other marques 'tuners' offering independent solutions are thin on the ground.

I have never heard of gt3 calipers being fitted to a C2 with just spacers, the calipers mounting points and style is completely different.

Porsche typically don't sign up for the over servo'd power style of brake and prefer progression which is fine, however a soft pedal sucks!

One chap did get Cayenne 6 pots to work on this 996, these are cheap and readily available but requires the calipers to be machined and brackets made.

Let us know if you get anything to work
 
  
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nickson
Newbie


Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow thats mega cheap!

i will sort those regardless.

i will be fitting lines, already changed fluid for high temp yesterday. i know a good set of pads will really help too, but i just feel like some larger brakes will help no end. the judder was really quite bad within 3 laps. a 2 piece rotor will certainly help with that!

i just thought the alcon setup i had, was insanely good, and has set a benchmark for braking! it would be nice to have on the porsche! if i can find suitable discs to use in conjunction with the alcon calipers, thats what i would ideally like to do.

i know people race 996 with the std setup, so i know it can be made to work, i just feel like a motorsport specific caliper and disc setup will really improve braking. gt3 items have a ''gt3 tax'' associated, and i could buy brand new alcon setup for less than upgrading to used gt3 items.
 
  
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1839



PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^That chap was PopPopBangBang (or PPBB for the lazy, such as myself).

Maybe a group of us could persuade him (via application of a large sum of money) to make a small run of his big brake kits?

Advantage is that it's all Porsche parts, so servicing and so forth is straightforward for any Porsche garage.
 
  
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Harv
Suzuka


Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 1204



PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With my 3.9 engine conversion nearly complete I've gone down the cayenne 4.5s/Turbo 6 pot caliper conversion route as PPBB did though mine is a C4S so assume some subtle differences.

It's not straight forward but doable and works with 997 turbo 350mm front discs which are the same size as the cayenne's (but drilled).

All the work is in the machining to convert these units from lug to radial mount config and making mounting brackets.
 
  
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crash7
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 493



PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit, I would be keen on a Group Machining Buy.

I previously looked at this route, but I could not find anyone to do the machining and make the required adapter/bracket.

The only downside is the setup is heavy when compared to the GT3 but this is a relatively small price to pay.


Harv

Could I ask who is doing your machining?
 
  
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Toml
Newbie


Joined: 05 Mar 2016
Posts: 40
Location: Cambridge


PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only found three manufacturers who make off the shelf kits - Brembo, Stop Tech and K Sport.

K Sport are the cheapest and regularly used on M3 track cars without complaint. In fact I used to have set myself. 356 mm two piece discs and the latest design caliper is forged monobloc. They take an AP Racing pad shape so all the best pads are available.

Whereas I was happy with these brakes on my M3, I'm not so sure I could fit them to my 996. Is that weird or what? Dont know
 
  
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Harv
Suzuka


Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 1204



PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a local machinist invloved with my conversion and he has a very basic cnc milling machine (though I believe he may have programmed it to do this).

I am literally about to collect the modified calipers and then will start work on custom brackets which I'll mock up with CAD (fitted in around other projects I'm working on).

I'd be happy to offer these to the forum but only once it's tested
 
  
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crash7
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 493



PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harv,

I would be keen on a set of brackets should all go well, although there MAY need to be slight modifications needed as I believe the C4S upright is different from that of a C2.

Lets us know when you have had your calipers machined and how it goes, do you mind me asking where your CNC guys is based?

If he has a program perhaps he would be interested in doing another set? Question
 
  
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simonsti
Trainee


Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Posts: 70
Location: Staffs


PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anybody wants to get a drawing done then I would be happy to make the brackets from it...I have my own cnc engineering business.
_________________
2004 cobalt blue 996tt
 
  
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SaintsPaul
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 314
Location: Hants


PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't there a thread on here recently about a C2 that 9e were setting up for track days.
I am sure they did a brake upgrade to the car.
 
  
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crash7
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 493



PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

9e fitted 340mm Giro discs with the standard calipers.


Simonsti

Would you be able to do this..,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIpDvSfkHUw

Cheers
 
  
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