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BChivs
Monza


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 155



PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject: C4S Sourcing probs! Reply with quote

Ok so about 6 weeks or so ago I began my search for a 996C4S but to be honest I have been quite taken by the lack of good cars and a generally low standard on the market.
I wouldn't go as far as to say I am TOO fussy, but I have always been very conscientious.....e.g. a keen detailer, always careful where I park my cars to avoid things like dings, always keep them regularly serviced and maintained and always buy the best I can find whether that means traveling large distances or being patient.

I have to say though, and being a car enthusiast that has owned varying different makes/models over my 18 years of driving the C4S is the most difficulty I have experienced trying to source a decent car. Most are average, patchy service history and generally come across a little 'USED' rather than loved examples. All the ones I have looked at I have had to go away and work out financially would it would cost to bring back up to standard, including servicing, major paintwork.

My budget is going up and up and I have began really lowering my standards saying to myself 'will that do'. I really want to take the plunge on a 911, but now seriously swaying to a 997 for the simple fact there are more cars to choose from.
 
  
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Harv
Suzuka


Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 1111



PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think perhaps sometimes we do expect them to be too clean and mint, they are 15 years old now and lots have had many owners and been properly used.

Can I ask what's ur budget?

Have the cars you've looked at been private sales or also cars from known specialist dealers (this is where I'd be looking). I'd register with a very of the higher end specialists and tell them to get in touch when they have a car come in.

Good luck with the search

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BChivs
Monza


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 155



PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harv wrote:
I think perhaps sometimes we do expect them to be too clean and mint, they are 15 years old now and lots have had many owners and been properly used.

Can I ask what's ur budget?

Have the cars you've looked at been private sales or also cars from known specialist dealers (this is where I'd be looking). I'd register with a very of the higher end specialists and tell them to get in touch when they have a car come in.

Good luck with the search

Thumb


I wouldn't say I have a budget as such....I know that's dangerous talk, but if the right car came along and was the right price I would go for it. I generally check Pistonheads, Ebay and Autotrader every 2-3 days but there's not much about. I have viewed three cars now, one at Cameron Porsche which was far from great for the approaching £30k asking price, and 2 others private.
To be honest I am kicking myself slightly...I viewed a car about a month back which ticked all the boxes spec wise, and the service history was solid but it was not anywhere near my expectations cosmetically. I wish on hindsight I had bought hat car and put a couple of grand into it.
Most are missing service history which is not something you can ever correct. I pick up the phone and all seems promising until I ask 'does it have full service history' and then you are told things like '2 dealer stamps, 2 indy stamps, last book entry 2013'! 4 stamps on a 15 year old car?! Not properly serviced in the last 4.5 years?! That's the point where I say thanks but no thanks.
 
  
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MisterCorn
Zolder


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 5329
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes it has taken me 9 months to find the right car when I am specific about what I am looking for, hang on in there.

MC
 
  
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BChivs
Monza


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 155



PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MisterCorn wrote:
Sometimes it has taken me 9 months to find the right car when I am specific about what I am looking for, hang on in there.

MC


I think that's it really...patience. I'm in the best place I suppose with cash in the hand ready.
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stewhp
Monza


Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 213
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

Finding the right car in the spec you desire is always a difficult thing especially with Porsche cars in general. Many cars have had lots (10+) of owners and some models have changed hands almost annually over the life of the car.

Obviously from what you have written so far this is something you have found out.

Personally I wouldn't dismiss a car because it had a few services missing. I know most dealers will say a car has full history but I bet many have patchy history at best.

As has already been said the C4S is between 12 and 15 years old and very few cars will be pristine.

You are doing the right thing by actually going to view some cars as you will be able to increase your own knowledge of what to look for.

Low owner low mileage cars are getting quite rare and obviously command a premium as is the case with the car you viewed at Cameron.

The prices of 996's in general seem to be increasing so there is the possibility that if you buy well you should never lose any money on your purchase even if you do have to spend a few thousand getting it as you want it.

That's just my view on things.

Good luck with your search and get a PPI done by a reputable Porsche inspection company before you part with any cash.

Cheers. Thumb
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Previous cars:964 Carrera 4, 964 Carrera2
964 Turbo 3.6
 
  
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BChivs
Monza


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 155



PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just struggle to get my head around it.....logic tells me that if anyone goes out to buy a Porsche it is highly likely they know what they are purchasing and have a firm interest in cars. Whether this be a new purchase or second hand a Porsche is a big investment typically by someone looking for something a little special so I struggle to understand why so many are generally neglected.
It is harder to understand when looking at prices of servicing - for the type of car and a prestige marque I find servicing prices reasonable especially at a good independent.
I was chatting to a guy a PCT and their servicing cost are not much higher than what I pay at BMW for my 320D daily.

It seems dealers are demanding high prices but the cars are not worthy of the asking. For example the car at Cameron is £29k, patchy history, early car, poor cond Interior (scratches everywhere and a Bose door grill completely kicked off), no evidence of any common problems rectified, and air con faulty indicating condenser/rad issue.

Values have risen granted, but even the present market place tells me £30k is top money and if I am to pay top money I shouldn't need to budget an additional 2-3k for repairs before I get home.

I will keep looking and hopefully something will turn up eventually & advice noted on the PPI👍🏻
 
  
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Winny911
Nürburgring


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 490



PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your missing the point some people see spending a £15-30k on a used Porsche as a bargain as that's not much more than they would lose in a years depreciation so they see it as a budget car and treat it as such.

I had the same problem searching for my RS6 so many used and abused ones especially if used by families with kids. My 2 year old has already broken a few bits which I have replaced but at the end of the day that car cost me £9k and a new one would be £100k if my 2 year old had done the same damage to a new one it would cost thousands to replace but because it's old it's not so bad and bits can be bought from scrap yards and I'm not overly fussed about the cosmetics.

You need to see these cars at this price point as being at the budget end of the market if you want perfect your going to have to buy newer.
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 12906
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winny911 wrote:


Your missing the point some people see spending a £15-30k on a used Porsche as a bargain as that's not much more than they would lose in a years depreciation so they see it as a budget car and treat it as such.



Yeah added to by the fact that the cars you are now looking at for £25k were only £17k 3 years ago so many fell into the hands of people wanting to tick the 911 box on the cheap and run them on a shoestring budget before moving them on.
_________________
2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9879
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
Winny911 wrote:


Your missing the point some people see spending a £15-30k on a used Porsche as a bargain as that's not much more than they would lose in a years depreciation so they see it as a budget car and treat it as such.



Yeah added to by the fact that the cars you are now looking at for £25k were only £17k 3 years ago so many fell into the hands of people wanting to tick the 911 box on the cheap and run them on a shoestring budget before moving them on.


Terry has a very good point, When theses cars fell sub 20k many boys wanted to and could afford to get into a 911 that in turn pushed the prices back up but many were in the hands of fast road drivers not real enthusiasts and many of these we are now seeing on the market. but there are still plenty of enthusiast owned cars come up for sale where the owner wants to go either 997 or back to air cooled . Your doing the right thing keeping an eye in the right places and on the forums as this is where an enthusiast will first mention hes thinking of a change that's when you PM him and get to the front of the queue. Thumb good luck also is there a reason you dont want a C2 OR C2S or a 997.1
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 12906
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:


........ also is there a reason you dont want a C2 OR C2S or a 997.1



I can think of a very good reason why a 996 C2S won't be on his shopping list. Grin
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9879
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
Phil 997 wrote:


........ also is there a reason you dont want a C2 OR C2S or a 997.1



I can think of a very good reason why a 996 C2S won't be on his shopping list. Grin



Floor Floor good point I meant 997.1 C2S Grin Grin Thumb
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BChivs
Monza


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 155



PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I strongly considered a 997.1 C2S.... if anything I would save myself money buying one instead of a 996 but for me it doesn't feel special. When I look at a C4S I get that I want it feeling and when I drive one it instantly confirms this is what I want.
I will stay patient and keep looking and it will come up eventually. Back many years ago I searched for a whole year to find an immaculate one owner low lileage S1 Ford RS Turbo with every mot and original bill of sale!
 
  
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K8rum
Newbie


Joined: 04 Aug 2017
Posts: 7



PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sense your frustration.
I had the same problem about a month ago.
I started looking at 996 C4S cars & to be fair they were ok'ish but not what I was really looking for.
I went to Strasse & looked at 2 996's & one 997. The 997 won hands down by just being a better all round car but more expensive.
If you aren't ruthless in your approach you will never be truly satisfied. The problem I have is I now want to buy a Cayman as well.
 
  
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Jonesey
Newbie


Joined: 07 Feb 2017
Posts: 10



PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel your pain, it took me 12 months to find mine having a list of wishes much like yours but also being picky on colour.

In the end, I spoke to a number of specialists and gave them my wishlist. This eventually bore fruit. I would take some time, look at specialists like RPMTechnik, Paragon, Dove House etc on a daily basis and aim for that route as they know their car network well and have a number of customer cars potentially for sale that aren't officially.

You never know, the private search might produce a gem though!
 
  
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Niall996
Imola


Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Paris


PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it can take time. Took me about eight months to find the exact car I wanted. And that was with daily browsing of every site imaginable. I wanted a 996. But it had to be narrow body, rwd, had to be silver, with black interior. Had to be manual. And under 50K miles at the time which was about 8 or 9 years ago. My budget at the time was about 24K. Who knows, it might get back there one day(!) but that aside, there were more 993's of all colours and variants around at the time than the 996 that I was specifically looking for. You imagine there are loads of them out there until you go looking for one. Just goes to show. But when you find the one for you, it's worth it. Keep looking. I'm sure you'll find a very nice well loved example and if they are appreciating, it's not that fast. And there were quite a few C4S's sold so they are out there.

By the way, I also had to have a full service history but then shortly after I bought mine I dicovered a really fantastic Indy who just took such great care of the car that I simply preferred to give him the business rather than the Porsche Centre. If I was back buying now I wouldn't necessarioy be fixated by a FPSH. Once it's been looked after by good peole.
 
  
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ragpicker
Paul Ricard


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 3123
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be frustrating on the one hand, but the search is one of the best bits of finding the car you like.. Or it is for me at least.

I quite like being in the zone, knowing each car thats on the market and knowing straight away if a new one pops up. Plus getting about and seeing them in the metal is often an eye opener.

Just stick to your principles and one will turn up. The 996 4S really is a peach Thumb
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Porsche News
Motoring Editor
Motoring Editor


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 6918



PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this one looks pretty good and from a highly respected specialist

http://911uk.com/ads_item.php?id=7829
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MisterCorn
Zolder


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 5329
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ragpicker wrote:
It might be frustrating on the one hand, but the search is one of the best bits of finding the car you like.. Or it is for me at least.

I quite like being in the zone, knowing each car thats on the market and knowing straight away if a new one pops up. Plus getting about and seeing them in the metal is often an eye opener.

Just stick to your principles and one will turn up. The 996 4S really is a peach Thumb


I'm with you. 1/3 of the fun is the hunt, 1/3 the car, 1/3 the people you meet and the forum.

I would be looking for a private sale or a non-specialist dealer if you want to beat the market.

MC
 
  
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BChivs
Monza


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 155



PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porsche News wrote:
this one looks pretty good and from a highly respected specialist

http://911uk.com/ads_item.php?id=7829


Must be manual....Tiptronic is one thing i wont compromise on however long it takes.
The Biggest struggle like i've already mentioned is lack of correct maintenance....some are advertised as FULL service history, and when you call to enquire you are later told it only has 4 stamps in the book....4 services on a 13-14 year old car is not full service history. I would class that more along the lines of insufficient servicing myself.
 
  
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