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Jackzi
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Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 43
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Why is it so hard to buy a car? Reply with quote

Long time listener, first time caller, as they stay on the radio.

I’ve been reading on this forum for a while now. But it hasn’t felt right to comment or engage in discussion without actually owning a Porsche at the moment.

That’s something I’ve been trying to change recently, but am finding it surprisingly difficult.

It’s probably not worth mentioning the encounters with several seemingly questionable private ‘agents’ selling cars on behalf of owners. And then finding that they take their sweet time returning calls or messages and always need to ‘ring the owner’ for even the most basic info.

Or the dealers who won’t allow for cars to be taken away for a PPI at a specialist. I understand they can’t take time out to travel around, but is this standard practice? Not sure the AA man from mobile inspections will know what to look out for.

Or the cars that seem alright on one website and then mention the dreaded ‘Cat D’ on another.

Maybe my budget doesn’t stretch far enough. And maybe it’s true that no matter what you pay for a 996, it will always cost you 20k.

But surely a halfway decent 996 targa manual with PSM (I’ve dropped a number of other things I’d like to stay realistic) can be had for around 15k. Or am I living on the moon? Maybe I’m too picky and need to adjust my expectations.

I’ll keep looking. And if you are interested I can keep the thread going with my experiences.

Either which way I’d like to say a big thank you to demort, who has been very helpful thus far. And to all the rest of you for posting regularly and providing so much useful information.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to talking about 911s.

You have posted before including a link to some excellent videos about 70s bikes. worship As a Puch Maxi, RS100, RD350 and 750F1 owner in the 70s and a rider of virtually all of those featured it was real blast from the past for me. thumbsup

Sadly, your £15k budget is a bit meagre. Three years ago that would have got you a very nice car. In 2017 you've already seen what's available. Those cars were probably sub £10k in 2014.

Demort will already have told you that beyond the purchase cost you'll also have to set aside another £1.5-£2k to get any car you buy fully up-to-scratch. Targas are quite rare but don't command a premium. Is that what you're set on? If so, you will be restricting your options.

Happy Hunting. Thumb
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ELA
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackzi, I wish you the best of luck in your pursuit. 996's appear to be gaining in popularity just now, so you may have to wait a little longer or travel further for the right spec car. I also don't think a great deal of Targa's were produced.
15K seems to me to be a fair budget for the car you have in mind. If you are handy with the spanners, getting one needing a little work might also be an option. You are however wise to get a specialist inspection done preferably with a borescope.

We are very lucky here to have a forum full of very helpful and knowledgeable members; as you have already noted, Demort is a diamond Wink
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Jackzi
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers for your replies. And thanks for the kind words about the bike films.

I'll actually be making the next one on the RD350, so I'll post that when it's done later this summer.

A film about the history of the 996 is in the works, the spanner in it being actually finding one to own beforehand.

It does seem like 15k doesn't go that far, you're right. It's good for those who've already got one but not great for those of us trying to get back into one. I might get some flack for this, but I'm not convinced a 'regular' 996 (non C4S, etc.) is a 20k car.

A targa would be ideal, as I find the driving experience unique, even with the roof closed.

I took a drive in a C4 that was reasonably priced with reasonable mileage, but it was a tip. I don't know if I wasn't driving it right, but the torque converter doesn't seem to suit the car that well.

Is a borescope really necessary? I know it's only another 100 or so on top of a full PPI, but as far as I can tell it's more of an issue on the 997 3.8.

Should I bite the bullet and be happy with 2 pedals? Or even go for a Cayman S instead?

Decisions, decisions...
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ELA
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackzi wrote:


Is a borescope really necessary?


Not necessary but if the budget is 15K, then a sudden 12K bill pops along, it may be a bit of a headache. It was merely something to consider.
I'd stick to your guns and buy the car with the spec you want.

I look forward to the video Thumb
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Jackzi
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12k would be more than a headache ELA. Either which way it's good to know Hartech are there in those sorts of cases.

Your own project/journey would have actually made for quite a film. I'm sure people would have loved to watch that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackzi wrote:


I might get some flack for this, but I'm not convinced a 'regular' 996 (non C4S, etc.) is a 20k car.

I took a drive in a C4 that was reasonably priced with reasonable mileage, but it was a tip. I don't know if I wasn't driving it right, but the torque converter doesn't seem to suit the car that well.

Should I bite the bullet and be happy with 2 pedals? Or even go for a Cayman S instead?



After selling my 996C4 for £13k 4 years ago I'd never pay £20k to get it back so I know what you mean. That said, the market has changed and I doubt that they'll come back down again.

My C4 was a tiptronic and I absolutely loved it. A lot of people don't like autos [full stop]. imo If you're used to ordinary (i.e not twin clutch)automatics the box in the 996/997 is about as good as they come but in a Carrera they work way better if driven in 'M'. If autos don't put you off, per se, I'd urge you to try another one as Tips are generally cheaper.

The Cayman is a superb car and a great value for money Porsche. The only thing wrong with it is ... it's not a 911. Wink

Seriously, if your budget is strict ....... a Cayman should be an option worth very serious consideration.

Good Luck Thumb
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Halcyon
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Joined: 02 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackzi wrote:


I took a drive in a C4 that was reasonably priced with reasonable mileage, but it was a tip. I don't know if I wasn't driving it right, but the torque converter doesn't seem to suit the car that well.

Is a borescope really necessary? I know it's only another 100 or so on top of a full PPI, but as far as I can tell it's more of an issue on the 997 3.8.



Out of interest, was it a mk1 or mk2 C4 Tip that you drove? I've heard it said that the .2 is better (It's a completely different box and more sophisticated - and made by Mercedes)
Mine's a 996.2 and I think the box is fine - if a little eager to get to 5th when driving slowly! lol

You could buy a borescope on ebay pretty cheaply, then post the pics up here.. but, if a garage won't release the car for a PPI, I'd always wonder what they were hiding..

A C4S commands a premium because it looks nice - but it's the same engine and suspension as the C4 - and it's heavier! better brakes on it mean that the pads are much more expensive too! #justsaying Very Happy
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alfazagato
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Joined: 03 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackzi, I had to pay £20k for a "regular" C2 in amazingly good condition, lots of miles and every option under the sun. Took some finding but this one had new tyres, new AC condensers, IMS, rear seal, clear boroscope inspection, sports heated seats, new plug/coil units, 18" wheels, new starter...the list goes on.....and fully serviced and a 15 month warrantee. Only bought fuel so far and am delighted. So in answer to your question I think that you will end up paying £20k one way or the other.
 
  
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Jackzi
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Joined: 30 Aug 2015
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Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was close to pulling the trigger on a couple of decent 996s at around the 13-14 mark not more than 2 years ago, so that's where my head is stuck in terms of pricing. Funds were not as readily available back then however, and now I see the market has moved on.

Shoulda woulda coulda. But maybe I'll be lucky and find a good one. Anyone happen to know of any decent 996.2s up for sale in the community?

The tip I drove was a mk 2. It was a frustratingly short test, however. But the reaction time in manual mode still felt quite slow. Especially when downshifting.

I know there are 250 modes and that the transmission is responsive. But I didn't have a chance to prod the pedal twice to get it into maximum attack.

Out of interest, do shift times improve when it's in that mode?

In a way, the tip would suit a targa in the sense of being more of a GT experience.
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Fastlane
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Joined: 05 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum.

I think you have probably already answered your own question - a very good manual 996 will cost you £20k now. I paid £20k for my 996.1 C4 3 months ago and there are an increasing number of people who have paid that and more - another 996.1 was advertised for £27k last month and sold in two weeks.

There are a lot of owners on here who just can't seem to get their heads around the fact that the lowly 996 is becoming desirable and that prices have seriously increased over the last 18 months. I personally think that they are incredibly cheap, especially compared to any air cooled 911 (I paid £20k for my 964 turbo back on 2006!) People tend to forget how good a car the 996 was/is - Evo rate the 1998 996 as a five star car and it was their Car of the Year.

£15k will buy you a 996, but you are already seeing what it will buy...you may be lucky if you are patient, but while you are waiting the prices are edging upwards...

Good luck!
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Modifications: Topgear manifolds, DesignTek SuperSound Mufflers, 997 GT3 shifter

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chriscoates81
Österreich


Joined: 17 May 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fastlane wrote:
Welcome to the forum.

I think you have probably already answered your own question - a very good manual 996 will cost you £20k now. I paid £20k for my 996.1 C4 3 months ago and there are an increasing number of people who have paid that and more - another 996.1 was advertised for £27k last month and sold in two weeks.

There are a lot of owners on here who just can't seem to get their heads around the fact that the lowly 996 is becoming desirable and that prices have seriously increased over the last 18 months. I personally think that they are incredibly cheap, especially compared to any air cooled 911 (I paid £20k for my 964 turbo back on 2006!) People tend to forget how good a car the 996 was/is - Evo rate the 1998 996 as a five star car and it was their Car of the Year.

£15k will buy you a 996, but you are already seeing what it will buy...you may be lucky if you are patient, but while you are waiting the prices are edging upwards...

Good luck!


Ouch, i find whenever i suspect anything of going up since i sold it, to never ever check Razz .
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thesmithsUK
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good, well-prepared examples of 'regular' 996s are already north of £20k.

https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/sales/vehicle/996-carrera-2-4/
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Fastlane
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chriscoates81 wrote:
Fastlane wrote:
Welcome to the forum.

I think you have probably already answered your own question - a very good manual 996 will cost you £20k now. I paid £20k for my 996.1 C4 3 months ago and there are an increasing number of people who have paid that and more - another 996.1 was advertised for £27k last month and sold in two weeks.

There are a lot of owners on here who just can't seem to get their heads around the fact that the lowly 996 is becoming desirable and that prices have seriously increased over the last 18 months. I personally think that they are incredibly cheap, especially compared to any air cooled 911 (I paid £20k for my 964 turbo back on 2006!) People tend to forget how good a car the 996 was/is - Evo rate the 1998 996 as a five star car and it was their Car of the Year.

£15k will buy you a 996, but you are already seeing what it will buy...you may be lucky if you are patient, but while you are waiting the prices are edging upwards...

Good luck!


Ouch, i find whenever i suspect anything of going up since i sold it, to never ever check Razz .


Oh I know, I really know. I didn't mention that I had paid £15k for the blue one too and sold both before the prices went mad...
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Jackzi
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I lived in Germany I was on the pff forum. Which is the equivalent of 911uk over there.

There was actually much more talk of prices on there. And this was even before the recent uptick in values.

In fact, back then everyone was clamouring after Italian cars just after the crisis hit as they were a bargain because of the 'superbollo' car tax.

If you look at prices on the LHD market it makes the values over here look like even more of a bargain.

But it still hurts to think that a 'regular' 996 is now 20k considering what the prices were like a couple of years ago.

Will it stay that way is the crystal ball question.
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Griffter
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are three reasons traders won't release a car for PPI:

1 they think they know best
2 they don't want the bad news
3 they don't want someone else fiddling with their car (much less removing spark plugs and sticking a borescope inside)

Searching for a targa is searching in quite a small pool. I'd try a wanted ad on here and pistonheads, and try and buy a known car from a prominent forum member. That's not to say you wouldn't want a PPI but a private seller may be more compliant.

I think you stilll stand a chance of getting a targa for £15k but when I was looking (not exclusively at targas) 2 years ago, seemingly nice targas were £16-£18k. Good luck.
 
  
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Jackzi
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had a distinct 'we've checked it in our workshop and it's fine' feeling off some dealers. So I tend to trust the ones who say 'no problem, check whatever you want' more.

If anyone's still reading, here's one more question: one of the cars I looked at had a dual speedo with mph and km/h (like on a BMW). I've never seen that in a 911 before. I know the digital display can be changed to show either km or miles, but this one had both in analogue.

My thinking is why, since that would probably be expensive or at least fiddly to do. The car hasn't lived abroad according to the documents I've seen. So it was odd to say the least.

And as a update, going to check out a tiptronic targa soon just to give the gearbox another go, but I'm mentally unconvinced.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackzi wrote:


And as a update, going to check out a tiptronic targa soon just to give the gearbox another go, but I'm mentally unconvinced.



I'm not trying to sway you but this might be of interest.

==> http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=78825&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=5th+gear
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Phil 997
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As your in Sussex, and I guess looking around the south area there is a mobile porsche trained Tech who covers the south he will go to where the car is and do a PPI and borescope and probably cheaper than other places. let me know if you need his number he has done PPIs for a few guys on here and does lots of maintenance work for me and others . Thumb Thumb
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Phil 997
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are a few, but your right they seem to be drifting up from 15k

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/classifieds/cars-vans-for-sale/porsche-911-996-targa-for-sale.html

then I was suprised to see this , mmmm is it a genuine ad

http://uk.next-cars24.com/434384-2001-porsche-911-996-36.html
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