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jpsand993c2s
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Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 16
Location: London


PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: 993 C4S @ £120k with 59k miles Reply with quote

Porsche 911 Carrera 4 'S' Coupe (993), 6-speed, Ocean Blue, cashmere leather sport seats with electric height adjustment, full leather interior









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jonttt
Reims


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 4054
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forecast 993 4S's would hit the £100k+ mark this year Smile

Lets face it there are not many of them especially with the correct mileage such as this ie not too low to not be driveable and you can put a few thousand on each year without affecting value. Plus its from a premium seller.

As I've been telling Zingari for years now there is still plenty of headroom in 993 WB NA manual cars. The last of an iconic breed never to be replicated. The 4S will always have the edge over the 2S in the UK as there are less, all manual and extra spec as standard especially the full leather interior.

Zingari, still room to jump in as the 964 anniversaries have done there dough now Floor
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carkid
Imola


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 778
Location: England

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not to say that the 993 won't sell at that price but some of Paragon's stock is so overpriced it's been kicking around for years- such as the 1968 2.0S priced at 175 grand which has been for sale for as long as I can remember.
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madalaa
Yas Marina


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 8675
Location: West London

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paragon ask some silly prices ...... but others are worse!!! ...... that sort of money for 993 4S is silly money ....... if it's bought ...... I doubt if it is gonna be driven that much ...... Sad
 
  
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NottsRS
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 1299



PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At that price, with that interior... Confused They offered me 18 months ago less than 1/2 that for my 4S Rolling Eyes
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Trantorman
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Aug 2008
Posts: 294



PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That asking price, with that trim/paint combination, certainly makes mine sitting at OPC in Aberdeen after a full and comprehensive restoration look like much better value…

Grin
 
  
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tyinsky
Monza


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 235
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really like the exterior and interior colour mix on this one. Does look like they have pushed 20-25% too far, especially as it is a 4wd but what would I know?
 
  
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Alam
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 304
Location: Buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At that price it makes my widebody 993S a bargain (currently in prep @JZM).
Perhaps I should tell Russ to hold back and add another 10 large to the price.

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MNC911
Österreich


Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 876
Location: Prestbury


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this car.....

... but would I like a brand new 991 Turbo S, with no miles and 2 years warranty ( for similar money once I'm into the £120k+ region and a bit more) and not work about mileage or repairs?

Thumb

Or a brand new 991S cabriolet ?

What would others choose with £120K?
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Slayer
Watkins Glen


Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 2234
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNC911 wrote:
I like this car.....

... but would I like a brand new 991 Turbo S, with no miles and 2 years warranty ( for similar money once I'm into the £120k+ region and a bit more) and not work about mileage or repairs?

Thumb

Or a brand new 991S cabriolet ?

What would others choose with £120K?


Agree with your thoughts.
I cannot get the thought of buying something with outdated technology at such staggering prices. All said some take it as classics and shell out their hard earned cash.
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cableguy
Suzuka


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 1110
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

993 Turbo money IMO. I could see it at £80 - 90k if it was in a good or unusual colour but I fear this will end up in another collection gathering dust as someone's pension fund.

C.
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Zingari
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 11382
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cableguy wrote:
993 Turbo money IMO. I could see it at £80 - 90k if it was in a good or unusual colour but I fear this will end up in another collection gathering dust as someone's pension fund.

C.


Robert Maxwell offered a 'better' fund than dumping all your dough balls deep in this, unless they offered a 40% discount Rolling Eyes

Hand Jonttt's crystal ball has a software error as we've only seen one car over the 'magical' 100k by a top dealer chancing their arm to catch someone like a moth to a flame Rolling Eyes

Personally if the market was strong to offer 100k for a 4S it would be folly for an owner not to sell as the classic market is going to be uncertain and they'll be shaking like a shitting dog if they drive it. Dump the dough in a property as prices are falling but rental demand is still high. Or buy a cheap 964.

My Jubi is for sale at the right money Grin
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Bund
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 Nov 2013
Posts: 302
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was having a chat with the owner of Coys last week and he said they've seen about a 20% reduction in classic car prices this year. Admittedly they're end of the classic car market isnt the £100k Porsche bracket side but surely it has to filter down.

I think the mileage on this car puts it outside of collectors.
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jonttt
Reims


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 4054
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The market will / is shifting for NA WB 993's to those that can afford multiple cars ie they probably already have several 991 Turbo S equivalent cars. I know a couple of new owners who simply would not have entertained a 993 when it was a sub £50k car, different world.

Future owners will be made up of the above and current owners who would not buy at the new prices but have no reason incentive to sell at the same time.

Over the next 10 years as hybrid / electric power, turbo and auto boxes / semi automated driving takes over the world there are a few "classic" cars which will rise and rise in value. Ferrari and Porsche are safe bets in that regard IMHO, especially the last of the analogue breeds where advances in tech (navigation / comms, etc.....) make no difference as they had none of that to start with. The 993 added with its low running / maintenance costs ticks every box there is = plenty of room yet for prices to rise and rise.

This one is just pushing the envelope..... and envelope which will continue to be pushed for many years yet. In a continually rising market there will always be those that push the top prices up. Look back, saw the very same discussions for the past 4 years Bandit
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Alam
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 304
Location: Buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A glance at the Paragon site and I cannot see the listing... Is it in prep or already sold to yet another collector!

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madge
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 Dec 2015
Posts: 376
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just don't see that particular car as a "collectors'" car even though it's priced as such (and a bit more).

Surely a collector/investor would want ultra-low mileage and a stronger colour combo for true investment potential. My impression of collectors is that they look for iconic pieces to store in their air-conditioned warehouses and dark blue/brown just doesn't scream iconic to me. Silver, black, guards red, rivera - yes, but not dark blue.

It looks a nice enough car but nothing special, apart from the price. It seems like a good enthusiast's car but why would an enthusiast pay over the odds for it? Question
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dommorton
Shanghai


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 4999


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think collector as a term has changed shape quite a bit over the years. You imagine someone with a climate controlled hanger with a selection of the very best rare and low use specimens. In reality these days it is applied to just about anyone who has more than one hobby car.

This is a smart looking car and Paragon likely know what they are doing and will find a buyer without breaking a sweat.

Agree the price is high given the miles and colour combo, but still if it's a good one people seem to be willing to pay. They don't come up too often these days. Plus the Blue on Toffee isn't the worst combination; It actually presents well here.

I remember in 2009 buying my first S from Paragon and everyone saying I was mental for paying £36k Grin
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highway
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1644



PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question which hasn't been asked, at least for a while, is what 'an enthusiast' will pay in today's market for a 993.

Personally I can't see any 993 derivative with much over 30k miles being worth over £100k. But clearly the wider market sees different. How many people want a wide body 993, without collector low miles, enough to trouser £100k plus? Those who this type of performance car really appeals to and who have the means to stump up £100k plus must be few
In number??
 
  
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dommorton
Shanghai


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 4999


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who knows. Even with very low demand the number of cars available is lower still and the indicated prices keep going higher.

I've always said the ceiling for my car must be about £100k I just can't see why anyone would pay north of that for a 993 no matter how difficult to find. But then look at some of the Ferrari's. Pretty poor cars by modern standards, yet they sell for lots and lots.

The price debate runs and runs, but I guess the thing we have that the buyers usually won't have is owners insight. I remember that burning desire to own a 993 as I am sure you do. It's a powerful force!
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ChrisT70
Barcelona


Joined: 26 Mar 2015
Posts: 1370
Location: The Sea


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the type of person who will pay £100k or more for it (and they will) is unlikely to visit this forum and chat, thats for sure. lots of guys with cash dont mess about themselves with cars and will be guided by specialist suppliers pricing etc. it wont be for sale still in 6 months you watch.
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