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C11BRA
Nürburgring


Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 468
Location: North London. Herts.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject: WARNING! Check your fuel rails for rust. Possible fire risk. Reply with quote

After checking my car on a ramp for pre-Euro trip 2 weeks ago, I thought I noticed a couple of slightly damp areas at the front of the engine. Viewed from under the car, looking past the gearbox I assumed these damp patches were slight oil leaks from the heads. Not bad enough to worry about. There seemed to be a leak on both banks, LH & RH. When I showed my mate though, the RH (drivers) side had dried up & no dampness was visible. Uh oh I thought........must be fuel (due to evaporation speed). I promptly started the engine & re-checked. As predicted, the RH bank was wet again. With a bright LED light & more attention, I could see it was coming from the circular end of the fuel injector rail where 2 pipes join to feed the LH rail. Now, this area it at arms length from beneath & the same from above. Space for 1 hand. Great!
It wasn't obvious (from this distance) where the leak was coming from. I could see some corrosion so I opted to add a jubilee clip to the hose closest to the leak. After 30 mins struggling, it was fitted.....but made no difference. We cleaned & dried the rail. This time, I stayed under the car whilst it was started. I could see the damp area was coming from the circular end of the rail, looking like a rusty core plug. Great. A quick call to Porsche established that the new part was £750! Wow!
I had a decision to make. Leave the car here, borrow a car, come back at the weekend & remove the engine. Or......
....fashion a temporary repair so I could get home & think more about the repair. Hmmmmm. Temporary repair was attempted. We measured the OD of the rail, visited the local hydraulic hose company, purchased a large diameter fuel rated hose that was just perfect size. We then pre-plugged one end of a short length of hose, applied some 60 second fuel resistant epoxy glue & fitted over the rusty rail end. I fitted a safety wire to help prevent a blow off if pressure built up. After 5 minutes, we started the car & run on the ramp for 30 minutes. All dry.
So, with an extra fire extinguisher, I set off home via the back roads avoiding the M25. All good.

As people will know on here, my Ethos is to keep this car on the road on a tight budget. So an alternative to a £750 rail was researched. A used set from Germany was located for £110 & wow, what a great condition set it was. (photos to follow). I sand blasted the new rails (just a few tiny areas) and applied a tough textured coating to help prevent this again.

Looking at the engine bay. The decision now was to decide if to fit these with the engine in (at home) or plan to remove the engine at my mates garage.

I am slightly cautious that disturbing a 20 year old engine installation just before a Swiss Alp tour might be a risk. I appreciate that we might discover & fix other issues by removing the engine......but, we might also create new issues due to disturbing items unnecessarily.

So today, Fathers Day, I started the "engine in" fuel rail swap.
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C11BRA
Nürburgring


Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 468
Location: North London. Herts.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Used fuel rails from Germany.








After light sandblasting & masked for painting



After tough coating applied. Note holes are all plugged.




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C11BRA
Nürburgring


Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 468
Location: North London. Herts.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imagine trying to complete a Rubics cube........through a sharp letter box......with one hand. That's pretty much how it felt removing the fuel rails from the car this morning. Sub-note. On early cars, it seems the coolant level sensor is placed in the bottom of the expansion tank, which prevents its removal? Great! On the Porsche EPC, it shows this sensor mounted low down but from the side. Maybe an update? So, the expansion tank stayed put.....restricting my access to the LH rail just as the AC pipes restricted access to the RH rail.
After much wiggling of injector connectors, a few bolts, pipes, clips and the rails were loose. Ahhhhh. A clip around the pipes at the front of the engine slows progress. I was forced to cut the old pipes and slide them through the clip. Hang on, where is the RH front injector? The rail clip has also rotted away leaving the injector in place. The injector itself is also rusted beyond use. It seems this area is prone to the most corrosion for some odd reason.

Replacement injector on order so next installment delayed. Watch this space.
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C11BRA
Nürburgring


Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 468
Location: North London. Herts.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LH rail removed



RH rail removed



Injectors out



RH front injector, closest to initial leaky rail location. Hmmmmm, why here?




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Brains_911t
Trainee


Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 67
Location: Autotrader


PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucky you noticed before it got worse
 
  
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911TEL
Österreich


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 922
Location: Inverness and Highlands

2011 Porsche 997 Turbo S

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

C11BRA wrote:
Imagine trying to complete a Rubics cube........through a sharp letter box......with one hand. That's pretty much how it felt removing the fuel rails from the car this morning. Sub-note. On early cars, it seems the coolant level sensor is placed in the bottom of the expansion tank, which prevents its removal? Great! On the Porsche EPC, it shows this sensor mounted low down but from the side. Maybe an update? So, the expansion tank stayed put.....restricting my access to the LH rail just as the AC pipes restricted access to the RH rail.
After much wiggling of injector connectors, a few bolts, pipes, clips and the rails were loose. Ahhhhh. A clip around the pipes at the front of the engine slows progress. I was forced to cut the old pipes and slide them through the clip. Hang on, where is the RH front injector? The rail clip has also rotted away leaving the injector in place. The injector itself is also rusted beyond use. It seems this area is prone to the most corrosion for some odd reason.

Replacement injector on order so next installment delayed. Watch this space.


Lol... I like the analogy ..... !

Good write up and a determined mind to get this done ....you are a better man than I...!!
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EGTE
Nürburgring


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 470



PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brave stuff and great information, thanks.
 
  
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C11BRA
Nürburgring


Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 468
Location: North London. Herts.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brave or stupid?

Here's the better side. LH.



And the temporary repair. Inc safety wire.





Got me home & to Beaulieu & back.
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e8_pack
Montreal


Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 525



PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to remove the paint from the bolted area of the rails. Ideally you should have masked them.

If you bolt coated areas, the paint will crack under the bolt head and you'll lose the fastener torque.
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7072
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ragpicker noticed mine were a little rusty when I posted pics of my engine out but luckily it is only surface rust and I painted it with POR15, hopefully that will help it last a lot longer.
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C11BRA
Nürburgring


Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 468
Location: North London. Herts.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good point & good practice.

This finish is super thin & I used a threadloc on this occasion.

Replacement injector arrives tomorrow, then its playtime again. (The injectors have all been cleaned, rust protected and painted on the metal body areas. Should last another 20 years....maybe?)
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C11BRA
Nürburgring


Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 468
Location: North London. Herts.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C11BRA is alive again.


Until next time.........
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Jamesx19
Monza


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 190
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Done. I know mine are rusty. Been spraying ACF50 on them for the moment.

Thanks for sharing the photos and info. Will have to wait until I earn some more money..
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911munKy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 346



PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ACF50 - magic stuff,
Have been spraying my manifold bolts with the stuff hoping that it magically makes a difference when the time come to replace them.
I think I should also hit the fuel rails.
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C11BRA
Nürburgring


Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 468
Location: North London. Herts.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might order some ACF50. Sounds like good stuff.
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C11BRA
Nürburgring


Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 468
Location: North London. Herts.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good news. All seems good with the new fuel rails. Loads of miles done since the replacement. One more check over next weekend before we set of for our yearly Euro trip. Heading to the Alps then Como & Northern Italy. Will post a thread in trips section with photos. To say I am excited would be an understatement. 13 sleeps to go!
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Jamesx19
Monza


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 190
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi C11BRA,

Hope your Euro trip was good and no issues were encountered....

I have had to start this job sooner than planned due to a suspected leaking injector.

No fuel smell, no misfires or smoke, but the oil level keeps going up. Now, unless there is such a thing as an oil fairy.........!

Anyway, injectors are away being tested at the moment. My rails are not as bad as yours, passenger side has a light dusting of rust, but drivers side fairly cruddy. Both cleaned, prepped and painted with Por15, ready for refit.

Just wanted to ask:

Any issues or tips on reinstalling the injectors? The holes into the manifold look a bit corroded, but with the engine still in the car, I'm fearful of dropping any crud into the engine by attempting to clean them up.

I've dropped the engine 40mm to get at the rear pipe bracket, but it's still a pig. Now recovered 5 of the metal injector electrical plug clips from the engine bay/floor!

Cheers James
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C11BRA
Nürburgring


Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 468
Location: North London. Herts.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No issues re-installing the injectors. My inj ports looked ok. But working pretty blind really.

I wouldn't try to clean up too much. Bores should be ok as inj seals would have sealed the lower part. Mine slipped back in easily tbh.

Great Euro trip. No issues with car. Ran like a dream.

Good luck with re-installation.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7072
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When fitting my injectors I always smear a little silicone grease on the O rings before seating as this will lubricate and make sure they seat perfectly square in the bores and make a better seal, also silicone grease doesn't attack the O ring rubber like other types of lube can. In fact I've started using it on all O rings I fit on the engine, the tin I bought was a couple quid and has lasted me years.

As said already I wouldn't clean up any crud in the hole due to the loose crud possibly getting into the cylinder bore.
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Jamesx19
Monza


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 190
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks chaps. Will get some silicone grease.....
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