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Marky911
Indianapolis


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2357



PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loads of people swear by POR15 but I hate the stuff.

It might be good on rusted bare metal but there won't be much of that in your arches.... hopefully.

It's not very good going over already mint, painted areas and it runs like hell. You have to sit for a good half hour after you've painted it on and keep going over all the runs that appear. Plus it needs two coats.

I just grind any surface rust back to good metal, use a rust gel, zinc primer, then top coat of black metal paint if it's in the arches. Anything that unbolts gets powdercoated. The finish is a bazillion times better.

I'd rather just monitor my painted areas a bit more closely and top up if required, rather than pay the mental price for POR. It has its place but imo that isn't on a car.

Some people make out it's better than powder coat. It just isn't. Grin

Just my 2p worth though.
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8214
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used tried and tested waxoyl as some classics (before they were classics) that had it done decades ago are still holding up. I microwave it for a couple of minutes and it goes like water, I then use a garden spray and put it on the jet setting, it gets right down the sills easily.

POR15 serves a purpose on surface rusted parts and does that job well, my radiator brackets had the powdercoat peeling and the exposed metal had surface rust, POR15 just paints on without the need to remove everything.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8214
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last few days I have been finishing off the painting of the front calipers and refitting various parts, including new disc and pads.

I used the same yellow as last time so hopefully it matches the rears as these don't need painting yet, but I do have a seal kit to fit. I applied 6 coats of yellow and then fitted the decals with a further 4 coats of 2K lacquer on top of those.

Then I fitted the new seal kit to these and built the calipers up ready to go on.



I have fitted stainless bleed nipples all round but in addition I have made sure all the connectors for the hard lines are also stainless, I think I am one bad thread away from a scrap caliper. I found both sides seized again but luckily they eventually came loose, never again will I use anything other than stainless fittings.

I chased all the threads with an M10 x 1mm tap to clean them all up but I had to helicoil the inlet threads as the thread had been chewed up a little with it being tough to undo and I didn't feel there was enough good thread to make a tight connection, with the helicoil fitted it felt a much better seal.



All nearly there.



The low tone horn was also fixed today, when I removed it a few drips of water came out of the connector, (and it's been kept dry in the garage for 2 months) with the new one fitted I have wrapped the plug with self amalgamating tape so this should seal it for good now.

I'm going to smoke test the evap system before I refit the offside wheel arch liner as this may give me a clue to a long time issue with high altitude driving.
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Last edited by infrasilver on Fri May 11, 2018 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marky911 wrote:
Loads of people swear by POR15 but I hate the stuff.

It might be good on rusted bare metal but there won't be much of that in your arches.... hopefully.

It's not very good going over already mint, painted areas and it runs like hell. You have to sit for a good half hour after you've painted it on and keep going over all the runs that appear. Plus it needs two coats.

I just grind any surface rust back to good metal, use a rust gel, zinc primer, then top coat of black metal paint if it's in the arches. Anything that unbolts gets powdercoated. The finish is a bazillion times better.

I'd rather just monitor my painted areas a bit more closely and top up if required, rather than pay the mental price for POR. It has its place but imo that isn't on a car.

Some people make out it's better than powder coat. It just isn't. Grin

Just my 2p worth though.


I think you misunderstand POR15. Its not a paint - in the conventional sense. Normally paint is held in suspension in a solvent which evaporates.

POR-15 reacts with moisture - so it sucks the moisture out of the metal and the air to form a hard coating. Best to apply on a damp day!

You are right it needs a very good key - pitted formerly rusted metal ideal. It will not stick to old paint - it will peel off.

You are right though, it does run and its almost impossible to get a nice finish - but you are applying it over bits pitted from rust anyway!

It will also fade in sunlight, it needs a top coat on UV exposed bits. Its not the right choice of coating for visible parts.
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foz001
Newbie


Joined: 23 Apr 2018
Posts: 42



PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOOD STUFF, ABOUT TO EMBARK ON A SIMILAR PROJECT ON MY 4S, RE HELICOILS, ARE THEY ALL MUCH OF A MUCHNESS AS EBAY IS FULL OF CHEAP REPAIR KITS?

Oh sorry for shouting!!
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maldren
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 1081



PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to be careful with helicoils, some of them have short thread lengths, make sure you get them long enough.

Also, if you haven't used them before, practice on some scrap first. It's quite straightforward but you don't want to mess up your calipers!
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8214
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

foz001 wrote:
GOOD STUFF, ABOUT TO EMBARK ON A SIMILAR PROJECT ON MY 4S, RE HELICOILS, ARE THEY ALL MUCH OF A MUCHNESS AS EBAY IS FULL OF CHEAP REPAIR KITS?

Oh sorry for shouting!!


The cheap kits do do the job, I have a couple of sets and luckily I already had a M10 x 1mm set for the caliper. As said it is best to practice with one first but as long as you take your time they are actually really easy to do. With a caliper you need to be careful you don't drill any deeper than the chamfer at the bottom of the hole or you could ruin the caliper.
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foz001
Newbie


Joined: 23 Apr 2018
Posts: 42



PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone helpfully snapped off 2 bleed nipples so I need to get them all off and see whats what!
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8214
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Send them to pro calipers as it's not an easy DIY getting them out.
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foz001
Newbie


Joined: 23 Apr 2018
Posts: 42



PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a local machine shop who can get them out, need to make sure my timings are ok as i don't want the car up on the ramp indefinitely!
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8214
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Front end is back together and will fit the front bumper once its returned to the floor.

The R send is now in the air and I am tasked with removing the gearbox and checking the rear end for rust now that the front end is sealed.

I got it up on the ramps and stands and after removing a few of the underside struts I removed the plastic arch liners and found the underseal had blown at one point on the nearside behind the plastic liner.



I feared the worst and got heavy handed with a screwdriver and ended up going around the whole arch with it removing underseal that was loose. It came off where there was surface rust but when getting to just above the silencer I put the screwdriver through. Gutted... This hole is smaller than my little finger though.



The front of the arch had a couple of small perforations but I couldn't get the screwdriver through.



All of this will get welded and sealed over the next few days and the grommets have all been removed ready for the waxoyl to be pumped in.

The offside arch is in strangely perfect condition.
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Jamesx19
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 439
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck Infrasilver.

Now is the right time to sort these cars from getting any worse with rust I reckon.

Engine failures have got rid on a lot, but the next few years could see a more conventional "classic car" enemy taking hold and further diminishing numbers.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8214
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumb it's very minor and for 17 years old it isn't too bad at all.

Any that get unchecked in the next few years will be the ones we lose to rot. The thing is, even some of the high values 996's can succumb to this if not kept in the dry at all times.
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Last edited by infrasilver on Sat May 19, 2018 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8214
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the gearbox removal I made up a cradle to rest the rear (front) of the engine on once the engine mounts had been lowered, I usually just put a jack under the engine but it does get in the way when trying to get the box off. This should make the job easier.

This is a similar design to the Porsche tool and also stops the two rear subframe gaps closing in, which makes it hard to remove and fit the central alloy brace. All made from Unitstrut = adult Mechano.



Everything is now removed apart from the driveshafts, gear linkage cables and slave cylinder, then the gearbox will be on the deck.
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

infrasilver wrote:




All of this will get welded and sealed over the next few days and the grommets have all been removed ready for the waxoyl to be pumped in.

The offside arch is in strangely perfect condition.


Do remove the remaining plug on the inner sill part above where the brace bolts up. Bottom right in your pic.

Mine was worst in there, but I scraped around and it was solid.

Also bad on the ends of the sills under the plastic spat and my jack points covered in surface rust.

My offside was also much better than near side. Must be the chamber of the road, less spray perhaps?
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8214
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to try to pull all the grommets I can see and waxoyl where I can, I didn't see the one I think you're referring to until I saw my picture and the flash highlighted it. Jacking points are rusty but solid so will get POR15 in/on them.

I saw someone mention their condensers were worse on the N/S, could have been yourself, it does sort of make sense that side could be worse due to this.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8214
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gearbox is off and on the deck, it was an easy removal for once, sometimes it takes a bit of wrestling to get it away from the engine.

Using my home made gearbox jacking plate it came out smoothly.





I have also removed the clutch cover and release bearing and found the reason it is very squealy. The edges of the bearing has cut into the clutch cover enough for the the cover fingers to go under the face of the bearing, thus chewing up the inside of the bearing somewhat and cutting the end off a couple of fingers.



The twisted metal fell out of the bellhousing when I split the gearbox from the engine.



I'm glad I took the car off the road when I did as it was due at any time to push the whole bearing through the clutch cover fingers.

This bearing was a replacement that was supposed to be an Audi bearing but the same part but slightly cheaper than the Porsche part. I have since realised it is not the same part and the face of the bearing is smaller, beware of this bearing when looking to replace.

You can see the new Porsche bearing (left) against the Audi bearing (middle) and my previous Porsche bearing (right). The old Porsche bearing was removed due to it being a little noisy last year.



New clutch kit has been ordered.


Whilst in there I have checked all other components, the DMF seems fine still and I also checked the clutch arm as it is prudent to change this too, I found I must have already fitting the 997 part at some point.



Checking the thickness of the metal of the arm to be 3.8mm, I then measured the dimple in the arm where the slave cylinder plunger sits and this is 3mm, I am happy that this is thick enough to last a good few more years yet, all these parts will get refitted. This will also have a new slave cylinder fitted with a plastic end which will stop any further wear for a while.


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coullstar
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1489
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you have made that look easier than it probably is... Laughing
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8214
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coullstar wrote:
Yes you have made that look easier than it probably is... Laughing


I don't think I swore once this time, although it must be my 6th gearbox removal by now (not attached to an engine).
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8214
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've not updated this thread for a while so thought I'd bring it up to date.

Since I fitted a new fuel tank due to the previous one collapsing all has been fine with the fuelling/EVAP part of the car.

See separate thread. http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=129613





And with the new wrap now on, its looking like a new car.

See separate thread. http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=130752



So to present day, I had my MOT test on Monday and they flagged up a ball joint on the N/S coffin arm as "dangerous" and it failed because of this. I bought a pair of Spyder Performance arms and will fit my existing Powerflex bushes to them.

I dragged the car into the garage to swap both arms over and starting with the N/S one first I found the ball joint would not budge, even to the extent that the threaded part of the ball joint bent and my ball joint splitter cracked and is now only fit for the bin what



I went out and bought a tuning fork type ball joint remover, it is a little more brutal than the scissor type but I needed brute force. Even with a lump hammer I couldn't get it to come free.

My next purchase was to replace my trusty old butane burner with a MAPP gas burner, these aren't particularly cheap but I thought I needed a lot more heat for this job.



A few more whacks with the tools and it was free at last. I removed the poly bushes and these will be fitted to the new Spyder Performance coffin arms. The MAPP gas gun is a nice addition to my tools and I should have bought one a long time ago but the butane gun had always worked fine up until now.



I have noticed the Spyder arms have a slightly bigger hole for the inner bush by almost 1mm and the poly bushes aren't as tight a fit as I would like, maybe due to the bushes already being used but measuring the diameter it is actually bigger than the standard hole. I may need to sleeve them and see how they go. I was offered a refund but I need to get them done this weekend for it's re-test next week.


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