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rigsby99
Monza


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 202
Location: South Cheshire


PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if it's easy to establish it's history, beyond 'it had a crash' then why not enlighten us and explain why it should be discounted
20k
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2992


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact of the matter is that if people know for sure a car has been written off, been through a salvage auction then people value the car less.

The car is no different to the next GT3 that the owner just ponied up for a new bumper on and not told anyone, as you wouldn't.

But that doesn't matter. There is documentary evidence this car has had some damage, however minor. This means its worth less.

This is why Cat D cars can be an incredible bargain.

Even worse for this car is nobody likes a shady history, or something being covered up. Its not the car's fault but it puts people off, and this is claimed to be a perfect car when its plastered all over the internet with some damage, makes people run away.
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Gottans
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 251



PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Putting the registration into vcheck.uk shows the car was subject to a salvage auction and this info is available to anyone.
 



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rigsby99
Monza


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 202
Location: South Cheshire


PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all wasz I strongly object to your implying that I would defraud a potential buyer.
No one has established the record of this car, the fact that it was sold at salvage auction means nothing, as far as I know the car has not been categorised, no one has attempted to conceal it's identity. It's worth what someone will pay for it and it is up to them to ask the right questions and inspect it.
 
  
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2378



PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caveat emptor and be damned?
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5204
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rigsby99 wrote:
Well if it's easy to establish it's history, beyond 'it had a crash' then why not enlighten us and explain why it should be discounted
20k


Not sure -20k is enough, it’s not actually. It should be way cheaper fo all the reasons that are obvious to everybody. Do I need to explain it? You saw the pictures, you read the threads. Even if they are all totally fact less it doesn’t actually matter anymore for as good (or not) as the car may be it does not command that asking price because of that existential negative “provenance” In that regard it’s tainted for years to come. The individual who bought it at the salvage auction got burned, paid too much or spent too much who knows but either way they fkd up. And now everyone and their mum is trying to get their dough back, unsuccessfully. Even the dealer has now withdrawn the ad from their site. There’s at least another 10k’s worth of price erosion been caused by this latest attempt to sell it, just gets worse and worse and it’s either incredibly disingenuous or naive of the seller, can’t work out which it is..
 
  
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Cunno
Indianapolis


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 2366
Location: Nottinghamshire


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve seen the screen shot above, that says the car has been subject to a salvage auction , but what does that mean? Does this car have a CAT status? Asking because AT have the car showing as clear on their site? And still advertised by present seller.
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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3815
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is quite an emotive topic that could be resolved simply by the dealer representing the car correctly. Disclosing that it has had an issue, obtaining pics of the damage, Bill if materials and invoice of repairing shop as part of the sales documentation and pricing the car correctly, rather than trying to flog it off as pristine is dishonest
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917k
Magny-Cours


Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 2558
Location: Bromley, kent

2011 Porsche Cayman 987

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cunno wrote:
I’ve seen the screen shot above, that says the car has been subject to a salvage auction , but what does that mean? Does this car have a CAT status? Asking because AT have the car showing as clear on their site? And still advertised by present seller.


It's still on PH, yes

However it's been removed from his own website and Facebook feeds....
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rigsby99
Monza


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 202
Location: South Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FZP wrote:
This is quite an emotive topic that could be resolved simply by the dealer representing the car correctly. Disclosing that it has had an issue, obtaining pics of the damage, Bill if materials and invoice of repairing shop as part of the sales documentation and pricing the car correctly, rather than trying to flog it off as pristine is dishonest


The car is not being dishonestly presented. There is a difference between false advertising and omission, try asking the seller if the car has history then judge them. As for bills and pics if the damage was superficial then they probably don't exist. I would suggest that a lot of cars of this type have had a few repairs in their time the difference here is that the accident was witnessed and consequently we have a witch hunt. Take the bumpers and wing off and if you have a sound undamaged shell what is the problem, if it was significantly damaged then it would be recorded as such.
 
  
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FRP
Albert Park


Joined: 30 Apr 2014
Posts: 1692
Location: Middlesex


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what is it worth......£45k ?
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 16085
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rigsby99 wrote:


As for bills and pics if the damage was superficial then they probably don't exist.



Pics do exist. See page 3 of this thread

or

click here --> https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/27844046?searchId=6551018
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kas750
Shanghai


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 4571
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FRP wrote:
So what is it worth......£45k ?


On a good day as its now as desirable as a wart on your old fella.
 
  
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rigsby99
Monza


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 202
Location: South Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pics show only superficial damage, only the rear NS quarter needs the body shop, all wheels are attached shut lines look fine. There will be many cars on the road and for sale with a more chequered history than this.
 
  
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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3815
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rigsby99 wrote:
FZP wrote:
This is quite an emotive topic that could be resolved simply by the dealer representing the car correctly. Disclosing that it has had an issue, obtaining pics of the damage, Bill if materials and invoice of repairing shop as part of the sales documentation and pricing the car correctly, rather than trying to flog it off as pristine is dishonest


The car is not being dishonestly presented. There is a difference between false advertising and omission, try asking the seller if the car has history then judge them. As for bills and pics if the damage was superficial then they probably don't exist. I would suggest that a lot of cars of this type have had a few repairs in their time the difference here is that the accident was witnessed and consequently we have a witch hunt. Take the bumpers and wing off and if you have a sound undamaged shell what is the problem, if it was significantly damaged then it would be recorded as such.

I'll put it to you another way, if purchased a house in which you later found out had been the house in which 5 members of one family had been murders by their son, was no disclosed to you, would you accept it as an omission by the real estate agent, or misrepresented.
Now you may find that an extreme example, but it's a true story and aligns with the above car. It changed real estate laws and closed the loop hole that this car has slipped through.
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 16085
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaSource wrote:


A lot of obsession with this car.

Pictures look worse than the actual car/damage but make a more sensationalist story.

The PU units were removed for inspection as were the lights. In the above pics the wheels of course are also removed.

Actual damage was just left front wing (superficial) and left rear. Zero damage at dead on front, back, sides, or any other panel. The right rear corner (exposed in the pics) and exhaust bits and valance area are completely untouched / undamaged but with the panels off deceptively look like part of the damage. The bonnet is not shut properly in the pics and was undamaged.

Yes it will be a repaired car but the actual impact was probably not the worst out there (sideways impact and not head on).

I'm not connected to the repair or sale of the car - but was in it when it happened Smile


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rigsby99
Monza


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 202
Location: South Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FZP wrote:
rigsby99 wrote:
FZP wrote:
This is quite an emotive topic that could be resolved simply by the dealer representing the car correctly. Disclosing that it has had an issue, obtaining pics of the damage, Bill if materials and invoice of repairing shop as part of the sales documentation and pricing the car correctly, rather than trying to flog it off as pristine is dishonest


The car is not being dishonestly presented. There is a difference between false advertising and omission, try asking the seller if the car has history then judge them. As for bills and pics if the damage was superficial then they probably don't exist. I would suggest that a lot of cars of this type have had a few repairs in their time the difference here is that the accident was witnessed and consequently we have a witch hunt. Take the bumpers and wing off and if you have a sound undamaged shell what is the problem, if it was significantly damaged then it would be recorded as such.

I'll put it to you another way, if purchased a house in which you later found out had been the house in which 5 members of one family had been murders by their son, was no disclosed to you, would you accept it as an omission by the real estate agent, or misrepresented.
Now you may find that an extreme example, but it's a true story and aligns with the above car. It changed real estate laws and closed the loop hole that this car has slipped through.


I don't think anyone was murdered in this car !!!!. You may have trouble finding a 19 yr old GT3 without a history of some sort, as always you buy on condition and inspection.
 
  
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911UK
Porsche Community
Porsche Community


Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 10271
Location: 911UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you have 2 issue, the actual value of the car with it's accident history, which is not what traders have had it up for

and certain dishonest traders trying to pass the car off as genuine knowing it's been in a crash but using the loophole that it's not 'officially' recorded, to sell it on

if it wasn't for the information on this site, this car would have been sold on many times already to unsuspecting buyers
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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3815
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6385
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people protest too much, it's the way the market works. History is known and should therefore be disclosed and true market price be asked. To knowing do otherwise in the hope someone will pay more than market value is just dishonest in my book end of

I can understand someone has issue with the way the market works but that will never change..
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