996 Turbo v 997Gen2 3.8S

Ronam2012 · 14 Oct 2016

Just looking for some thoughts. I'm in the market for a weekend car and will do around 5Kpa max. I keep flipping between a 996 turbo and a gen 2 997S both would be around the same price c 40K and probably similar mileage on them of 50K . The age doesn't really worry me as I know condition is the key however I've read an EVO article that suggests running costs for the turbo would be around £4.5K pa which seems high to me?
Whilst I'm not buying the car as an investment I really don't want to take a huge depreciation hit & the turbos seem to be holding well.
Id really appreciate any thoughts on the pros and cons against each car and also whether you feel running costs on the turbo would be significantly higher.

Many thanks

adamw · 14 Oct 2016

Can't help but also interested in these 2 cars so subscribed to thread to hear people's thoughts :thumb:

All the best !

cheshire911 · 14 Oct 2016

As a 996 Turbo owner I can only say a few words:
1. The 996 Turbo prices are still firm and holding up for clean low mileage examples (<50k miles, not ultra-low mileages desired by collectors of <25k miles). Values have shot up in the last 4 years but this year they have softened a little due to perhaps owners off-loading to cash-in their cars and make some money. So supply has increased.

2. The cars most in demand for this model are standard factory option cars with <50k miles with manual gearbox. If it has the X50 factory option that becomes more desirable.

3. The 996 Turbo is very fast. I've never raced it against a 3.8 gen 2 997 but on paper it will be fatser and on the road probably little in it. Its what's under the skin that is different. The Turbo is the Metzger dry-sump unit based on the GT1 Le Mans winner. So it has a certain pedigree about it that is perhaps not the cae with the Gen 2 997 whihc has the newer DFI engine.

4. Those maintenance costs seem steep. Main dealer fixed price annual services are Minor £395 and Major £725 inc VAT. Gen 2 997 is on two-year servicing but many enthusiasts do annual oil and filter change - so factor that it to maintenance to keep the car desirable when you want to off-load it. There are people who will buy a 997 Gen 2 car with 2-year intervals for servicing without hesitation and others that will walk if it has not had annual oil & filter change.

5. You may have to spend money bringing the car up to tip-top condition when you first buy. Pre-purchase inspections can easily identify £3k of work required for a 996 Turbo. So I'd always recommend an independent inspection to check the car over thoroughly.

The 997 Gen 2 is a good choice. Its newer, some might say its better, some might say it loses the 'raw' feel of the 996 Turbo and the brute force and missile-like ability of the 996 Turbo.

My own view is that if I replaced the 996 Turbo, it would be for another Turbo - ideally a 997 Gen 2 Turbo with PDK box. This turbo ooomph is addictive. That's not to say the NA car is slow, it is is not. But the Turbo is just awesome and fast with gut-wrenching acceleration.

These are two very different cars in all honesty. Try both and decide for yourself. For the 996 Turbo try both a Manual and a slush-box tiptronic auto. I think manual Gen 2 997 cars are scarce, so you might be limited in choice there.

Now someone will come along who owns a 997 Gen 2 and persuade you different and all this from a 996 Turbo owner is a load of b&llocks!

chriscoates81 · 14 Oct 2016

Hth I've got a 996 turbo manual. I've had a few big bills recently but it's been a very reliable car and since I fitted a new headunit it's useable everyday. I do about 8 - 10k miles in it every year and in my 3 years of ownership I've spent probably 6 grand on it over and above normal maintenance. I've purposefully excluded fuel as well due to 21 mpg. I'm looking at upgrading next year to a gen 2 c4s cab pdk as imo it's a pretty close side grade rather than an upgrade. I'd get one now if my wife wasn't on mat leave. Don't get me wrong it's been an amazing car but I miss the noise of NA and sometimes it feels like I'm just accelerating to the next traffic jam so I don't think power loss will be much of an issue.

HSC911 · 14 Oct 2016

Ronam2012 said:
Id really appreciate any thoughts

Hi Ronam2012,

My thoughts, buy a 996T

The End

Ronam2012 · 14 Oct 2016

Thanks for the feedback so far, it s all appreciated! In the real world is the tiptronic perfectly fine? I appreciate the manual is that bit more desirable but with my budget I think I am more likely to get a really nice tip. Also i do like the red or tan interiors - is that dangerous? are they less desirable?

This looks like a nice car but it seems to have been for sale for a while??

http://www.maundrells.co.uk/porsche...ctric-sunroof-in-oxfordshire-for-sale-5781364

MisterCorn · 14 Oct 2016

The turbo is pretty good to drive, but the throttle response is certainly lacking compared to a good N/A car. I would get test drives arranged in both and see what you think.

MC

chriscoates81 · 14 Oct 2016

Also im not sure you should bethat bothered by milage, at 50k miles if the clutch hasnt been done i suspect it would soon need doing and that would be a grand+.

Nastymatt · 14 Oct 2016

Can't see me going non turbo now in a Porsche out of choice.

Out of memory I have experienced 993 cab/c2s/turbo, 996 c4s / turbo, 997 targa /turbo gen 1 / gen 2 pdk, 991 c / 50 / turbo s and I'd take the turbo of any of them of over any of the NA (the 50 would be a tough choice)

snb993 · 14 Oct 2016

Hi
FWIW, I've had my 996T for over 10 years now and from my experience that annual cost estimate of £4,500 in maintenance is way over the top: I have had some expensive years (3 x rads + a clutch in 1 year for example which was probably 8 years ago) but otherwise my costs have been 'upgrades' so they are optional in a way and nothing like £45K for my time of ownership

I think it's also worth mentioning that with the turbo you are buying a platform that can be tweaked very readily and effectively which may be of interest ? The standard item is IMHO fairly 'soft' in a user friendly way and technology has moved on massively. 420/450hp back when they were new was a lot whereas nowadays even a cooking C2 has something close nowadays. Of course this isn't the whole story but my point is that the 996T can be developed easily to keep it 'special' and there is plenty of expertise around

At 5K miles pa (which is a little more than I do), I would plan for a minor and then major service alternating each year and rear tyres every 2 years

They are fab cars in my view and still underrated/valued. Personally, the only car I would even contemplate perhaps changing mine for is a manual 997T and then start the journey over again!

HTH
:thumb:

cheshire911 · 14 Oct 2016

I couldn't see myself going to a NA Porsche car after the Turbo. The only exception MIGHT be a 991.

If you are looking at a Turbo vs 997 Gen 2 at least you know you wont be buying the potential issues associated with the M96 engines just as with buying a 996 Turbo you wouldn't be either as its got the Metzger engine.

I cant speak about 997 Gen 2 cars, but I can tell you that with a potential 996 Turbo purchase, do your homework, study the service book and have it inspected. Its such an age now that you'll not find one with an OPC. So you are looking at Porsche specialists and general non-Porsche "prestige" specialists as well as private cars being off-loaded.

Remember, if you want a facelift MY2002 996 Turbo, it is 14 going on for 15 years old now! the engines are good but high mileages are a plenty out there and could be hiding big mechanical bills and general wear n tear on suspension, clutches, rads, discs all of which will cost you a tidy sum (even at an indy). You don't want this experience with a 996 Turbo to be a bad one.

T8 · 14 Oct 2016

I had a 996 Turbo for just under 2 years.

Cost of running it => My costs

A lot depends upon what condition it's in when you buy it.

I love all 911s and would normally go for the newest my budget would buy but when it comes to Turbo v Carrera I'd always know that you can drive a Turbo like a Carrera but when the conditions allow you can't drive a Carrera like a Turbo.

cheshire911 · 14 Oct 2016

I think Terry makes a good point. Whichever car you buy, spend at the top of your budget and buy a good 'un to begin with. I have talked to some owners who bough cheap and spent bringing it into condition and they remarked it cost more than buying a good 'un in the first place.

If you're handy with the spanners and you have all the facilities to lift the engine out etc. if needed then this is a load of b&llocks and you'll benefit by buying the cheapest you can buy and then spending money on parts and doing the work yourself.
And Terry is spot-on. You can drive a Turbo like a Carrera, but you cant drive a Carrera like a Turbo!

Jonathon555 · 15 Oct 2016

I bought my turbo just over 2 years ago.

Jobs done so far
4 coffin arms £500
1 center rad £350
Clutch accumulator £200
Clutch £900
6 coil packs £200
Oil pressure sender £50

So about £1k per year

But hopefully now the jobs are done there done for a while

cheshire911 · 15 Oct 2016

^^^ Those + annual services. Looks like some of those are DIY expenses (4 coffin arms supplied and fitted for £500?).

Then as with any Porsche you hit new tyres for a Turbo and it always seems to be along with something else!

I'd suggest realistically, its worth setting aside £2k per annum. Sometimes you'll be under, other times you may need to go over that budget.

996 Turbo v 997Gen2 3.8S

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