E92 M3 to 997.2 C2S PDK

After nearly buying a 911 three times in my lifetime but wussing out I've finally decided to buy one this year. I have a budget of £40k so was looking at a 997.2 Carrera 2S with PDK if possible.

My other car on the shortlist is the BMW M4. I appreciate that the M4 might be a bit quicker than my choice of 911 but I fancy something with more sense of occasion and something a little more depreciation proof.

My previous car was an E92 M3 which had that lovely 4L V8 engine. Has anybody on here gone from the M3 to the 997.2 C2S? If so, what were your thoughts on the swap?

Does this engine respond to tuning at all? I understand that a remap can only liberate very little bhp and doesn't represent value for money but what about other bolt on items such as induction kits/exhausts?

Any advice appreciated.

Ha ha.

Just noticed, joined in 2009 and have 15 posts. I'll work on that when I have my 911.

I can't comment on the 997.2 as a daily driver, but I went from a V8 M3 to a 986 boxster as my first porsche.

After many years of M3's - from the E30 LHD through the E36 Evo, E46 and then the E90 I got tired of the numbing down of the brand. They became soulless and benign. Sure there was power, but thats not anything without substance. My favourite of them all was the E36 evo - what a chassis that was!

In the end I decided to completely change tack and went for a 986 S boxster. I haven't looked back since. In fact, I loved the 986 so much I've recently bought another to keep the 911 company!

Having driven the 993, 996 and 997.1 and .2 I can see the same thing happening with Porsche. They are starting to cater for the Audi drivers and salesmen, and less about the niche they used to enjoy (which built their fanbase). Each generation is a step away from the one before, whilst actually being a better car in every measurable respect (although not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts - A Einstein).

To sum it up, the Porsche is so far ahead of fast Audi's and BMW's its untrue. You wont look back, but the driving experience will not be as pure as the older models. I bet there is nothing in it in terms of performance either. Just last night I had a drag race from a standing start in my 16 year old boxster against a 65 plate RS3. There was nothing whatsoever in it until triple figures, and I even had my roof down to dry my hair! Childish behaviour but interesting nonetheless.

Before the nay-sayers chime in. all opinions expressed above are just that - opinions.

:thumb:

I can put in a bit of input on this one - I have a 997.2 (mine is a GT3, but I have a little familiarity with Carreras) and an E93 (which has a child sized engine, though I am familiar with the M3 as my brother has one of those).

The cockpit of the 997 has much more of a sense of occasion and is somewhat more driver focussed in general IMHO. Personally I far prefer the PCM 3 console to iDrive. Your eye line has to go lower to look at the display, but with the touch screen rather than the rotary widget you have to spend much less time looking at it. There are other nice details too - the door mirror coverage from the drivers seat of a 997 is excellent and the blind spots are much less than a 3 box saloon like the 3 series.

The Porsche has better steering and pedal feel (communicates more, but is meatier) and the suspension tells you more about the road IMHO. It also requires more ability to drive fast than the M car (though unless you are on a track you will be doing highly illegal things before you get to the point where it matters).

The C2S should be cheaper to own than the M car too (less servicing cost and you don't have daft stuff like having to plug an OBD unit in to code a battery change like a BMW). It will probably be a bit better on fuel and Insurance costs too. Some of the PDK 997.2 models are in the £300 tax bands rather than the £500 too (might be worth looking into if you care about such things).

Downsides of the Porker? Well, you are might well miss the S65 V8 from your E92. The 9A1 in the 997.2 is very, very good, but it is a different beast to the S65 (which many consider an all time great of an engine) and has a somewhat different personality. You may prefer the porker, but it is certainly different. Depending upon what seats the 911 has, you might prefer the E92 M3 seats as well (they are as you know excellent, and better that basic 997 seats IMHO).

I've not driven an M4 myself, but it is huge on the road and will cost you a s**t tonne of money in depreciation at this point in its life. There is also the niggling contention that the M2 may actually be a better driver's car according to a few people who should know. I'd rule the M4 out off the bat personally. If you have a 997 test drive and decide that you actually still fancy Munich over Stuttgart though - perhaps look at the E46 CSL or the 1M Coupe for a change to your M-powerment which is not going to bleed you out in depreciation. :thumb:

ragpicker said:

I can't comment on the 997.2 as a daily driver, but I went from a V8 M3 to a 986 boxster as my first porsche.

After many years of M3's - from the E30 LHD through the E36 Evo, E46 and then the E90 I got tired of the numbing down of the brand. They became soulless and benign. Sure there was power, but thats not anything without substance. My favourite of them all was the E36 evo - what a chassis that was!

In the end I decided to completely change tack and went for a 986 S boxster. I haven't looked back since. In fact, I loved the 986 so much I've recently bought another to keep the 911 company!

Having driven the 993, 996 and 997.1 and .2 I can see the same thing happening with Porsche. They are starting to cater for the Audi drivers and salesmen, and less about the niche they used to enjoy (which built their fanbase). Each generation is a step away from the one before, whilst actually being a better car in every measurable respect (although not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts - A Einstein).

To sum it up, the Porsche is so far ahead of fast Audi's and BMW's its untrue. You wont look back, but the driving experience will not be as pure as the older models. I bet there is nothing in it in terms of performance either. Just last night I had a drag race from a standing start in my 16 year old boxster against a 65 plate RS3. There was nothing whatsoever in it until triple figures, and I even had my roof down to dry my hair! Childish behaviour but interesting nonetheless.

Before the nay-sayers chime in. all opinions expressed above are just that - opinions.

:thumb:

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Can't believe that a 16 year old Boxster would keep up with a new RS3. They will do a 0-60 dash in 4sec dead!! Probably 2 secs quicker that a Boxster which is night and day. He was probably just playing with you.

My E46 M3 wouldn't keep up the a new RS3, and the Boxster would see which way the M3 had gone!!

toffeeman said:

After nearly buying a 911 three times in my lifetime but wussing out I've finally decided to buy one this year. I have a budget of £40k so was looking at a 997.2 Carrera 2S with PDK if possible.

My other car on the shortlist is the BMW M4. I appreciate that the M4 might be a bit quicker than my choice of 911 but I fancy something with more sense of occasion and something a little more depreciation proof.

My previous car was an E92 M3 which had that lovely 4L V8 engine. Has anybody on here gone from the M3 to the 997.2 C2S? If so, what were your thoughts on the swap?

Does this engine respond to tuning at all? I understand that a remap can only liberate very little bhp and doesn't represent value for money but what about other bolt on items such as induction kits/exhausts?

Any advice appreciated.

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I've owned an E92 M3 and it's a great car, however the 997 is far more focuses as a drivers car.
M4 is a superb car and prices now start at around £42k, so probably won't loose more that £10k in the next 3 years.
You will struggle to get a good 997.2 C2S for £40k, probably need to be looking mid £40s
I've got a 997.2 turbo which is a quick, have driven loads of 997.2 Carreras but haven't owned one. Running cost probably similar to your M3 but depends on your annual mileage.
Best recommendation is to go and test drive a few M4s and 997.2 Carreras and then decide.
Best of luck which ever direction you go.

If you were after a larger car the M5s are an currently an absolute bargain. £30k ish for a 2013 car. Saw one recently, 2013 one owner, 8,000miles FSH fully loaded for £35k!!

Hi OP have had two M3s and two V10 M5s the only way is Porsche end of. We Buy Any Car offered only £3k less for my 997 then I paid for it 4 years ago ,which equates to the massive weekly depreciation of the princely sum of £14.42 per week ,my M5 did £14 an hour :sad:

Can't believe that a 16 year old Boxster would keep up with a new RS3. They will do a 0-60 dash in 4sec dead!! Probably 2 secs quicker that a Boxster which is night and day. He was probably just playing with you.

My E46 M3 wouldn't keep up the a new RS3, and the Boxster would see which way the M3 had gone!!

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Me neither! I thought it mighty funny!

Having said that, it didn't look or sound like he was playing, no hint of backing off the throttle, front of the car in the air until the gearshifts...

Or maybe the quoted figures are just crap. I had a similar thing in my old 996 4S when I was pulling away from a C63AMG. My pal who owns a 3.4 996.1 didn't believe me until a few weeks ago when he did exactly the same to the same kind of car and I witnessed it from behind the pair of them in my turbo.

At the end of the day its all speculative. Was he trying, wasnt he. Did he have a boost leak, didn't he. Did he have w&nkers cramp and fluff the gear changes... etc

Point is, the real life difference of these cars isn't that great. They are fast enough for road use. The aerodynamics of the porsches count's for a lot too I think and allows them to punch above their weight. Quite a testament to their design IMO. :dont know:

Wow. Absolutely fantastic feedback guys. Thank you.

A 911 is an itch I simply have to scratch. As good as the BMW V8 is, it will be nice to own an engine with some low down torque.

At this point I've decided that my next car will 100% be a Porsche. It will depend on what my £40k gets me later on in the year. I have to finish my house first. I'm ridiculously excited to say the least, I cannot wait to get one.

Hi mate, I'm doing exactly the same as you, I have just spent 2 years in an E92 M3, I'm viewing a 997 Gen 2 3.8 PDK next week, it's covered just over 30k miles but I'm having to stretch to mid 40s to get the one I want and spec, I was also going to buy an M4 but noticed guys on M3cutters have already started to off load them as the prices are only heading one way!!!
I'm very confident from being on here and studying prices over the past 2 years you don't stand to lose a shed load of money on a 911, I'm looking forward to it, and will be adding pictures and opinions of it as soon as I get it
Good luck with your search mate

I've had an E46 M3 CS and two E92 M3's and currently have a 997 GTS.

I really enjoyed the CS and the engine in the E92's but in the end I felt the E92 was too compromised for a "fun" car. It's a heavy family car with a great engine.

The 911 on the other hand has always been a sports car and it feels it, the engines aren't as special feeling but handling is another league altogether.

The M4 is very quick although it does feel a bit like the E92 M3 in that you're driving a 4 series with a lot of power and it can feel like a 420i 80% of the time. A 911 always feels like a sports car.

Engine tuning options are minimal with the 997CS although you can add the X51 kit but I think the cost is prohibitive. What you can do (and fairly cheaply) is enhance the standard handling and noise. A Sharkwerks center muffler bypass is a must and a fast road geo set up will get rid of any built in understeer. You can then look at lowering springs which as well as making the stance better lower the CoG and the TPC PASM replacement has excellent reviews (I'm just about to order mine!).

Have you thought about stretching a little bit to something like this?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...997/porsche-911-997-turbo--manual/5955318?v=c

It will be more depreciation proof than a 997.2, and should be going up in value if anything. Gen 1 997's are basically stable, if not going up, but for some reason 997.2's are actually dropping in value a bit.

Turbo's are bomb proof and a manual 997.1 turbo will be a very sought after car in years to come.

hi there.
Its all been said above really but, if it helps:
- I really like M-cars and went from an 997.2 to an M4 a couple of years ago as i needed some more kid-space. M4 is a great quick car and particularly good as a daily commuting machine but feels big and not as connected as it could. Depreciation is horrible too.
- Missed the 911 so much i had to get one back so got a 997.1 and felt straight away that i knew what i was missing.
- In fact i am going backwards and now have an M4 E46 CS and I love it, enough to swap out for the M4!

you wont be disappointed to the move into the 911 instead of an M4, its the right call if you dont need the extra space.

Good luck with the search!

effy said:

Hi mate, I'm doing exactly the same as you, I have just spent 2 years in an E92 M3, I'm viewing a 997 Gen 2 3.8 PDK next week, it's covered just over 30k miles but I'm having to stretch to mid 40s to get the one I want and spec, I was also going to buy an M4 but noticed guys on M3cutters have already started to off load them as the prices are only heading one way!!!
I'm very confident from being on here and studying prices over the past 2 years you don't stand to lose a shed load of money on a 911, I'm looking forward to it, and will be adding pictures and opinions of it as soon as I get it
Good luck with your search mate

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It's like you can read my mind.

I totally agree with your points. I love the M cars and enjoyed my 3 yrs with the E92 M3 but the depreciation is horrific. I think I'll still get an M4 in a few years but it will be to join the 911 not replace it. I feel the 911 will be a keeper.

Good luck with the viewing. :thumb:

Big E 118 said:

Engine tuning options are minimal with the 997CS although you can add the X51 kit but I think the cost is prohibitive. What you can do (and fairly cheaply) is enhance the standard handling and noise. A Sharkwerks center muffler bypass is a must and a fast road geo set up will get rid of any built in understeer. You can then look at lowering springs which as well as making the stance better lower the CoG and the TPC PASM replacement has excellent reviews (I'm just about to order mine!).

Click to expand...

I did do some research on tuning prior to asking the question and agree that the X51 kit is very expensive for what it is and that remaps are also not worth the money for the power output released. That's why I was looking at bolt on items.

I found it interesting that a company reckoned their dyno recorded a 23bhp increase on their (I think) 997.1 C2S with just a K&N induction kit. That's quite an increase for a bolt on item which I assume means the intakes/plenum chambers are quite restrictive. If that applied to the 997.2 then that would be around 400bhp output. I'm thinking snake oil though.

I'll look into your other suggestions. :thumb: