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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:38 am    Post subject: Mr White Reply with quote

Back at home with fresh Michelins all round, rebuilt front shock mounts and new springs, a non-leaky front diff, no more yellow shark fins, a little bit of fettling, and an extended warranty (it's been a bit expensive, and I'll still need new brake discs and pads all round, and it seems that all four rims are bent... Evil or Very Mad)
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2010 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK in Carrara White/Ocean Blue - not quite stock any more...
 



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apollokre1d
Indianapolis


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2286
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch all four wheels need work? I know it's your daily and you use it on track.... but all four wheels?
 
  
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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that the rims are made of cheese.

In the normal course, the rims were rebalanced when fitted with the new tyres, and, after the front suspension overhaul, the suspension was fully realigned. But there was still wheel wobble, so the independent removed the rims again for testing. It seems that the fronts might be reparable but the rears aren't...

Right now, I'm still driving the car, and the wheel wobble is 'OK' in that it's a lot better than it was, but it is still noticeable at some speeds. I'll be getting new rims in due course when the bank account recovers.

I don't know what the explanation really is but it seems that the previous owner and Dubai speed bumps are the primary culprits - I've always taken it really easy over the bumps and potholes (you' be surprised at some of the roads around here), well, mostly easy, except for a few straddled kerbs at Yas, where they're really very flat!

Still, one of my old friends did have a lot of problems with the rims on his Boxster, so maybe it's a Porsche thing?
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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

off roading in my 4x4
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2010 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK in Carrara White/Ocean Blue - not quite stock any more...
 



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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm posting this here for my own future reference, it's a post from a guy called semicycler on Rennlist re modifications for using the car on track. And I'm firmly in the 'drive it til I die' camp.


"I'd do this for tracking:

1. TPC DSC control box to replace the OEM PASM control box for the active suspension, tightening up just the right corner when needed. (Honestly I'd do this first, above everything else including Bilstein B16s.)

2. Semi-solid engine mounts (as solids have too much NVH) from Rennline, RSS, Function First, all great stuff.

3. Fresh brake fluid and oil change (some do them before and after a track event. I top the oil off before and flush after, and always flush brakes after. I only flush the brakes before if it's been a few months since my last visit.)

4. Aggressive street alignment: get as much front negative camber as you can with the stock suspension, should be about -1.1 degrees.

5. Dedicated track brake pads - Pagid are popular, so are Performance Friction. They squeal when cold though so not great for the street. But when warmed up they are awesome at the track.

At this point on street tyres you have an awesome setup. Get some seat time in, then when ready go deeper down the slope:


5. Coilovers like Bilstein B16 DampTronics along with 997 GT3 camber plates (for the monoball and more negative camber). Pick a drop in the 0.5" to 1" range keeping the front to rear rake proper. GT3 drop specs are a good place to start. Be sure to get the car corner balanced during the alignment to the help with the handling.

6. Track alignment – with 997 GT3 specs as a starting point. If you are a novice at the track then Michelin Cup2 tires are overkill. If you stick with Michelin Pilot SuperSport or PilotSport2's then your front camber only needs to be about -1.5 to -1.8 or so. Camber plates alone are enough. Use GT3 alignment specs but stay at the low end of the rear toe spec to save tyre life and the high end of the front camber spec to get the car neutral, or even higher to about -1.8. Front to rear camber should be no more than 1 degree different otherwise handling is affected too much (keep the rear around -1.5 or so).

7. Anti-roll bars, and (if you are lowered) drop links to go along with them. Either used GT3 ones or H&R. (The drop links are only needed for moderate to severely lowered cars: they will remove the anti-roll bar preload when the car is lowered.)

8. Third radiator if your oil temps are too high.
Beyond this it gets expensive (it's expensive already but you get the point):

9. GT3 split style LCA's for even more negative camber, needed for track tyres.

10. Second set of light weight rims with track tyres: 18" wheels are popular because they are light and the rubber is cheaper than 19" flavours. (A second set lets you swap in track brake pads and tyres before your events, then swap back to street brake pads and tyres afterwards.)

11. Another track alignment for the track tyres. Front camber at -2.5 to -3.0 or so, rear about -2.0 to -2.5. (You will probably want to tune this to your taste at this point.)

12. Deeper oil sump. Some do this sooner: I believe the engine is fine until you run track tyres, then the g-forces are higher so the extra oil near the pickup helps prevent starvation. [Not an issue on the 997.2 DFI?]

13. Start replacing rubber bushings with solid monoballs - dogbones, LCA puck, inner LCA bushing, transmission mounts. But say goodbye to driving on the street except for the smoothest of roads: city driving will be a nightmare.

14. Track seats, roll cage, harness…

15. Better brakes - two-piece discs and hats are better and lighter (with the .2 4S, Turbo or GT3 6-pot calipers and 350mm discs).

16. Drop weight - remove aircon, radio, etc.

There are plenty of other things that are fun too on the noise side and the power side. Just understand the power gains are minimal with the NA engine, maybe 50HP in the best case – rear centre muffler delete exhaust for sound, 200 cell high flow cats for power, free flow headers, a tune etc. It's an expensive and slippery slope. Understand before you start what your end game is for the car (track conversion? back to stock for resale? drive it until it dies?). Then start modding."
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2010 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK in Carrara White/Ocean Blue - not quite stock any more...
 
  
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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first track day of the year is coming up at the Dubai Autodrome Club Circuit. I need to get the car in for fresh brake fluid, realignment (more negative camber at the front), those RS29 pads and Goodridge lines. Thumb
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2010 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK in Carrara White/Ocean Blue - not quite stock any more...
 
  
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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I'm thinking about some new lightweight rims from OZ Racing. I can then get the OEM Carrera Sports fixed (they're all bent) and repainted at my leisure - despite not actually being kerbed, some the lacquer seems to be peeling ...
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2010 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK in Carrara White/Ocean Blue - not quite stock any more...
 
  
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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've now ordered 19" OZ Racing Ultraleggeras in matt graphite, some Rennline studs, and also a set of new Huf Beru 433Mhz OEM TPMS valves and sensors (@USD342 from oewheels in the US) so I should be all safe and legit going forward. Grin
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2010 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK in Carrara White/Ocean Blue - not quite stock any more...

Last edited by MaxA on Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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CarreraMonkey
Kyalami


Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Posts: 1961
Location: Silverstone (ish)

2007 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Max - you need a set of those black headlight surrounds I've got.

They'd look spanking on Mr W.

Let me know if you want a set.
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Laters Taters!

 
  
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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went to see Terry Hilton Automotive in Dubai Investment Park for the latest nano-tech ceramic coating from Feynlab:
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2010 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK in Carrara White/Ocean Blue - not quite stock any more...

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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'money shot' - not bad for a seven year old car...
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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollokre1d wrote:
Ouch all four wheels need work? I know it's your daily and you use it on track.... but all four wheels?


Terry has a theory, and I'm rather hoping he's right; he reckons that the non standard McGard locking bolt is lighter than the standard wheel bolts and could be throwing the wheel out of balance. I'll need to source some bolts and test the theory.
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2010 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK in Carrara White/Ocean Blue - not quite stock any more...
 
  
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apollokre1d
Indianapolis


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2286
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Car is looking good Thumb
That will be interesting to see if the weight difference (which surely can't be that much lighter?) is causing it.
 
  
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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still footling around, looking for wheel bolts. But when my new rims and studs come, then presumably this issue will go away.

In the meantime, last Friday night, we went up to the Dubai Autodrome for a Track Night on the Club Circuit. Usually track events are held in the evenings as the temperatures are lower (and the tracks are floodlit) but right now, it's cold for Dubai, and ambient temperature was around 13c... I was colder than I have ever been in Dubai...

Anyway, we gathered an electic collection of cars: a Maserati GT, an M5, a V6S Jaguar F type, a couple of GT86s (one modified, one stock), a Hayabusa engined Radical, a MINI JCW GP2 on very sticky tyres, a box fresh Cayman GT4 and a 997.2 C4S. Amongst other stuff.

We had to run as novices as it was first time on the track. The sighting lap didn't go too well as most of the field didn't understand that the Autodrome Driver Experience TT was actually demonstrating the racing line... hey ho.

The track, as some of you may know, is a full FIA spec track with lots of run off in most places, and quite some elevation changes. in this configuration, the pit exit is at the end of the main straight, with a long right hand double apex corner down from a slight hill. Then there is a quick sequence of a 90 left, 90 right and an uphill hairpin with a tricky exit (you just drift off the circuit if you take it early), and a negative camber 90 right into the main straight. We could hit 215-220kmh before the 100m board - you just feel you have to brake early for the down hill corner, but it was still easy to outbrake people at this point.

We had 3x full 20 minute sessions, with overtaking allowed on the straights only (before the 50m boards). And that was great, as it wasn't too busy, as it's always fun to compare the 'high horsepower cars' with the 'fast-in-a-corner cars'. As such the GP2 could pretty much outbrake and outcorner everyone but there were a couple of all round quick cars. My first session was pretty lame as it was just about finding the line, and it was hard to get any front end bite until the last session, as it was so cold (the track wasn't heated by the sun at all that day, and it was pretty dusty - especially off line). No issues with traction in a 4S though. And braking was OK even though I was running some pretty knackered pads and discs (the Pagid RS29s are still in the cupboard, more fule me!). The instructors said it was like ice, and I have to agree: too much understeer, and a couple of corners were taken with the wheels straddling the rubbing strips...

I'd love to go back, on a warmer night, now that I've some idea which way the track goes. I suppose the good thing was that my new Michelins were fine, not chunked or worn. Unlike the guy in the GP2, who needs a new left front Nitto NT01! (He's my brother by the way).
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Gazc2
Barcelona


Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 1429
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the lock nuts positioned opposite the valve stem ? not sure if this is old wife`s tale or fact but have heard it mentioned regularly both for balance and so you know where to find it when changing a wheel Question also thread here that goes with the theory the lock nuts are the problem albeit an 944/968

http://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1137
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2007 997 Turbo & 924s in progress
1990 964 C2
1989 3.2 targa
1987 3.2 Cab
1986 3.3 Turbo
1986 944 2.5 (later fitted with a 2.7 after wife went scuba diving in a flood and popped a piston through the block)
 
  
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Bonners1
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 09 Sep 2008
Posts: 260
Location: Gerrards Cross


PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the Autodrome very well, have done hundreds of laps.....on my push bike. Only one major straight on the start finish but I guess they let you over take in the far side too? Good elevation change on the S bend too, pretty frightening I bet when going full chatter.

What always stunned me was how much rubber was on the track, millions of pieces especially off the racing line.
 
  
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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gazc2 wrote:
Are the lock nuts positioned opposite the valve stem ? not sure if this is old wife`s tale or fact but have heard it mentioned regularly both for balance and so you know where to find it when changing a wheel Question also thread here that goes with the theory the lock nuts are the problem albeit an 944/968

http://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1137


Thanks for that, I'll have a look at the locking bolts. The irony is that there is no need here in the Emirates ... who's going to bother stealing some rims?
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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonners1 wrote:
I know the Autodrome very well, have done hundreds of laps.....on my push bike. Only one major straight on the start finish but I guess they let you over take in the far side too? Good elevation change on the S bend too, pretty frightening I bet when going full chatter.

What always stunned me was how much rubber was on the track, millions of pieces especially off the racing line.


The Track Nights are run on the shortish Club Circuit, so only one straight. I don't mind the S bend, as it's uphill - I'm less certain about heavy braking on downhill sections as I'm always aware of the 3.8 behind me (the classic 911 phobia I suppose).

There is a lot of rubber, as well as dust, off the racing line. You can pick up a lot of crap and it really compromises your lap if you run wide...
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MaxA
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 698
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally had the chance to drive the C4S in the rain, on wet roads! It was merely damp in the morning but by mid afternoon enough rain water had collected for the drive home to be a bit of a worry: our offices in DIP2 are subject to some pretty local flooding, so I ended up navigating some 10-25cm "puddles"... just to get out of the Investment Park.

Once I'd got through the deeper bits, I found the car to be pretty benign at speed, on normal wet roads, all very predictable. I only got a wiggle on once, and could feel the front end pull the car straight. This is going to be a great all-weather machine (except perhaps for deep snow, deep slush for obvious reasons).

Thumb
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apollokre1d
Indianapolis


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2286
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear they are great on the correct snow tires so you might find it will be just fine Smile
 
  
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