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Sarllm
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:11 am    Post subject: OPC extending warranty terms - means rethink?? Reply with quote

Just found out (probably old news here!) that Porsche will now put a warranty on a car upto 15 years old (previously 9).

I own a 997.1 TIP Turbo (2007) that I have always slapped an OPC warranty on for peace of mind. I'm happy with the car but I was planning on selling this year a few months before my warranty expired (in the summer).
Given Turbo prices seem to be around what I paid for the car (2.5 years ago) my plan was to pay another 5k ish and move back\forward into a lower mileage 2010 gen2 997 PDK 4S. My brain is telling me that is a good move, and of course I would've been avoiding a potentially costly bill should something go wrong with the car without a warranty (I've had about 5k of work covered under warranty).

Now I can extend the warranty. Woopy! How does this effect the market? Are 997.1 Turbo's likely to remain at this price point? I'm currently over the moon in the fact that I haven't really lost any money on the car. Should I hang on in the hope prices may go up? My car has done 60k which I know is highish........

I guess bottom line is this.......Getting your crystal ball out, in 2 years time would a 2007 Turbo be worth much less than a 2010 997.2 4S??


Many thanks!
 
  
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3978
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I wouldn't feel a need to run either a 997.1 Turbo Tip nor a PDK gen 2 4S under warranty - in the long term neither are likely to leave you out of pocket if you put the money in the bank instead. Remember that your "£5k" of work is all at OPC prices and can always be done for less (even using the exact same factory parts). Also, if that has all it has needed then the cost of running in warranty for the 6 years since it fell out of factory warranty is still more...

I don't know about 2 years time for specific value, but I would certainly expect you to lose more money in that period from the younger 4S than the Turbo. Possibly quite a bit more.
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
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apollokre1d
Paul Ricard


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 3000
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disco wrote:
Personally I wouldn't feel a need to run either a 997.1 Turbo Tip nor a PDK gen 2 4S under warranty - in the long term neither are likely to leave you out of pocket if you put the money in the bank instead. Remember that your "£5k" of work is all at OPC prices and can always be done for less (even using the exact same factory parts). Also, if that has all it has needed then the cost of running in warranty for the 6 years since it fell out of factory warranty is still more....


I agree with you.... but T8 will be along shortly to disagree Smile
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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 16132
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollokre1d wrote:


I agree with you.... but T8 will be along shortly to disagree Smile



I certainly will. Very Happy

=> It all depends how lucky you are

4 hours diagnosis today and a new MAF sensor being fitted tomorrow would have added another few hundred £'s to my 2015-2016 running costs.
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Jcx
Estoril


Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 3876


2010 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What were your symptoms Terry? Did you buy a raspberry?! Wink
 
  
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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jcx wrote:
What were your symptoms Terry? Did you buy a raspberry?! Wink


No symptoms other than the amber 'Drive to workshop' light came on.

Apparently no specific fault code was showing so it took all yesterday afternoon and a while this morning for them to find something that stopped the light from coming back on.
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Jcx
Estoril


Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 3876


2010 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
Jcx wrote:
What were your symptoms Terry? Did you buy a raspberry?! Wink


No symptoms other than the amber 'Drive to workshop' light came on.

Apparently no specific fault code was showing so it took all yesterday afternoon and a while this morning for them to find something that stopped the light from coming back on.


Got to love a warranty... Smile
 
  
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T8
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: OPC extending warranty terms - means rethink?? Reply with quote

Sarllm wrote:


.......... My plan was to pay another 5k ish and move back\forward into a lower mileage 2010 gen2 997 PDK 4S ........

Now I can extend the warranty. Woopy! How does this effect the market? Are 997.1 Turbo's likely to remain at this price point? I'm currently over the moon in the fact that I haven't really lost any money on the car. Should I hang on in the hope prices may go up? My car has done 60k which I know is highish........

I guess bottom line is this.......Getting your crystal ball out, in 2 years time would a 2007 Turbo be worth much less than a 2010 997.2 4S??



I'm in a similar position to you Sarllm in that my original plan was to swap my 2007 997T and get a newer 997GTS some time next year. The extended warranty period now available means that I'm now planning to keep it a bit longer and get a 991 C4S.

In your case the current trade/private/retail values of your car and a 2010 997 C4S are virtually identical so I guess the £5k you'd be expecting to add is the difference between trade for yours and retail for the one you'd be buying.

My opinion (and hope) is that values of the 997T will stay pretty much where they are now for a couple of years and that the value of 997 and 991 Carreras will drop. If you're happy with the 997T I reckon you'll be far better off keeping it. My dream is to get into a 2012 991C4S without having to add too much - even it means waiting until 2018.
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Sarllm
Trainee


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 82



PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: OPC extending warranty terms - means rethink?? Reply with quote

[/quote]

I'm in a similar position to you Sarllm in that my original plan was to swap my 2007 997T and get a newer 997GTS some time next year. The extended warranty period now available means that I'm now planning to keep it a bit longer and get a 991 C4S.

In your case the current trade/private/retail values of your car and a 2010 997 C4S are virtually identical so I guess the £5k you'd be expecting to add is the difference between trade for yours and retail for the one you'd be buying.

My opinion (and hope) is that values of the 997T will stay pretty much where they are now for a couple of years and that the value of 997 and 991 Carreras will drop. If you're happy with the 997T I reckon you'll be far better off keeping it. My dream is to get into a 2012 991C4S without having to add too much - even it means waiting until 2018.[/quote]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.....

T8 - it is a nice position to be in isn't it? I still pinch myself. If i'd done what a lot of my mates had done and brought new BMW's etc, I'd have lost 50% of the purchase price, by now. As it is, in the past 6 years I've had a 997.1 4S and a Turbo and can basically get my cash back!

The problem I have (well I guess its not a bad problem) is that my car is my every day runner. Probably 9k a year - so in 2 years time it'll have close to 80k on the clock. Presumably that would lose me a bit......

For what it's worth (you may be interested) I was offered £40k from the dealer I got it from. Given 10-12% mark up does this seem fair?
 
  
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T8
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: OPC extending warranty terms - means rethink?? Reply with quote

Sarllm wrote:


For what it's worth (you may be interested) I was offered £40k from the dealer I got it from. Given 10-12% mark up does this seem fair?



Given the mileage £40k for yours seems pretty fair. I reckon he'd mark it up by 15% for retail.

With an OPC warranty you might get a bit more by selling privately but private buyers are rare and those that are around normally haggle for a bargain.

Fingers crossed in 2 years time it shouldn't be worth much less even with c80k miles up.
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Sarllm
Trainee


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 82



PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: OPC extending warranty terms - means rethink?? Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
Sarllm wrote:


For what it's worth (you may be interested) I was offered £40k from the dealer I got it from. Given 10-12% mark up does this seem fair?



Given the mileage £40k for yours seems pretty fair. I reckon he'd mark it up by 15% for retail.

With an OPC warranty you might get a bit more by selling privately but private buyers are rare and those that are around normally haggle for a bargain.

Fingers crossed in 2 years time it shouldn't be worth much less even with c80k miles up.


Thanks, I think like you I'm going to hold off for at least a year. A 2012 991 4S would also be my dream. I think we'd need quite a fall in prices though for a 991 to fall into my price bracket. I'm pretty frugal and a current quick check looks like 2012 991 4S's are going for around 70k....however you never know!
 
  
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3978
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
apollokre1d wrote:


I agree with you.... but T8 will be along shortly to disagree Smile



I certainly will. Very Happy

=> It all depends how lucky you are

4 hours diagnosis today and a new MAF sensor being fitted tomorrow would have added another few hundred £'s to my 2015-2016 running costs.


I would contend that if you took it to one of the better independents instead of Porsche then they would very likely have resolved it quicker and much, much cheaper (as corroborated by Ken's post to your thread). Perhaps the value in your warranty is felt mostly because you choose to have it repaired by main dealers? In such a case then yes, you are right and they often do make a lot more sense.

Conversely, I had a recent gearbox issue calling for it to be pulled apart. If I had taken it to Porsche the spend would have been immense just to diagnose, but Fearnsport sorted it for an amount which very much validates the economics of not extending the warranty (the actual fault was more minor that I even dreamed, but getting to it was significant surgery). I still use OPCs for the biannual stamps in the service book (so if I were ever to sell, the dealer history is there if it were important to a prospective buyer), but all of the extra services in between those as well as any other maintenance goes to specialists. They fix things that Porsche needlessly replace because with OPCs either the parts are too obscure and rarely used to be cost effective to inventory, the dealers lack the specific expertise or their labour rates are too high to make a repair economically sensible.

It is not that I have any axe to grind on main dealers, but the more serious the job it seems the more expensive they are relative to the alternatives. And the top independent specialists will do at least as good a job - and that isn't a rare opinion.

To me, the main reason for anyone to go the warranty route is to essentially turn variable ownership costs into fixed ones. Which is fine, but you have to accept that insurance companies don't run at a loss so the longer term you plan to own, the more sense it makes to bank the money instead of extend the warranty.
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
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pancobalt
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 02 May 2015
Posts: 282
Location: surrey


PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disco you have made some very valid points there . I would like to share a recent warranty experience all be it with a kia dealer.sorry to go off topic.

wifes car 65 reg sportage. Plastic top coat of gear gaitor surround ( centre console ) is starting to peel and flake.

Kia indys state absolute 1hr tops to swap out centre console. Kia dealer who is actually doing th job wants the car all day stating minimum 4 hrs. Question

are we bothered ? Not really as long as the repair is gratis. The point i am trying to make is that warranty hours imo are maybe exagerated by the dealer because they are working at a discounted labour rate for the warranty underwriter.

And a similar discount is also applied to parts cost within a warrany claim. I agree insurance companies always profit ultimately but the dealers are not far behind them !

In relation to your excellent variable vs fixed overhead statement, i shall be performing further man maths when trying to decide whether to bank the funds or purchase an extendied opc warranty for 11 yr old 911.
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seeforez
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Jan 2016
Posts: 1475
Location: up norf


PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agree with above and another point is at OPC you often see younger less experienced mechanics as the older experienced ones have left and work/own indys ?
 
  
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3589
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great perspective Disco and one which I have had for the duration of my Porsche ownership.
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RedJedi
Suzuka


Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 1161
Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My car just gone to OPC - Steering bolt has come off and needs new belt too.

Been at OPC since last Friday, ready to collect tomorrow morning.

Been given a BMW 330 in the meantime - and OPC looking after everything.

Chap reckons its about £500 worth of work all in, and of course cost of courtesy car...

Yes, could be cheaper if I didn't have warranty and went to indie workshop - but this has been very easy for me - minimum amount of hassle...

And thats a big part of getting a warranty...

Will renew mine in April.
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^

6 days for a belt and a bolt - they are seriously having a laugh at your warranty's expense.

If you are happy to bail money out for this kind of thing in the name of convenience then good luck to you.
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RedJedi
Suzuka


Joined: 13 Aug 2008
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Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris_in_the_UK wrote:
^^^^

6 days for a belt and a bolt - they are seriously having a laugh at your warranty's expense.

If you are happy to bail money out for this kind of thing in the name of convenience then good luck to you.


Car was dropped to them Friday lunchtime ish - they had a look at it on Monday morning, and ordered parts. Parts arrived Tuesday pm, they worked on it today (Wednesday) and was ready to pick up tonight, but I couldn't collect it - so am getting it tomorrow.. Thursday.

I see nothing wrong with this....

Alternatively, If I don't have a warranty - have to get it to a good garage - they then need to look at it, order parts and fit - probably similar timeframes...

Meanwhile - I need to sort a hire car.... and lots of phone calls etc...

So yes, in the name of convenience .... Like having a cleaner, or gardener, or cook, or paying someone to do something for you that you can't do, or can't be bothered to do....

Each to their own.
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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disco wrote:


To me, the main reason for anyone to go the warranty route is to essentially turn variable ownership costs into fixed ones. Which is fine, but you have to accept that insurance companies don't run at a loss so the longer term you plan to own, the more sense it makes to bank the money instead of extend the warranty.



It takes all sorts to make a world. eg. Some people choose to pay a hefty extra % of their cars worth by buying them on finance. I've never understood why anyone would pay that much extra to buy a depreciating asset.

I chose to pay 2.5% of my cars value on a belt & braces warranty accepting that it might end up being £1100 wasted but happy to do so for the peace of mind I knew it would give.

As it turns out in parts alone I'm about £10k up on the deal this year.

I could 'bank' that and not bother renewing next week but will actually be using £1250 (111 point check + renewal) of it for another years peace of mind. If I don't need anything done I'm still £££'s up overall.

NB: It helps that I've got a degree in 'man-maths' which enables me to calculate that the warranty cost equates to 21p per mile for me i.e a lot less per mile than I spend on petrol. Grin
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Sarllm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife is an underwriter which perhaps goes someway to explain my need for a comfort blanket warranty.

My personal experiences are as follows. I owned a 2005 997 4S which I (naively) purchased from a prestige dealer rather than OPC or indy. I was, like all novices, attracted by the price and the excitement of owning my first 911. The car although great was never quite right. Although I had a warranty with the dealer they often just fudged things, once even saying that all 911's drip oil!!!!! Before I could think about changing the car, fate stepped in and some a$$hole nicked it. I lucked out, insurance paid 1k less than I paid for the car 2 years previous.

So i needed a new car, wanted to stay in the 911 game and upgraded to my current car a 2007 Turbo. This came with 6 months OPC warranty. I got a 111 point check done before purchase and the car was confirmed perfect aside a turbo issue. Can't remember exactly what, but it cost £4.5k to replace and was covered under warranty. Last year I had a few bits done during service that was also covered (around £1.5k).

Really interesting hearing everyone's thoughts - I must admit I'd never contemplated not having a warranty. My 2.5 years of ownership has cost me about 2.5k in warranty for 6k's worth of work. Admittedly (and going by the really useful posts in this thread) this 6k of work could've been completed cheaper at an indy. However, I am really lazy and the piece of mind the warranty gives me helps me sleep at night (isn't a Turbo engine about 25k if it goes bang?). I've also got 3 young kids and we cannot be without one of our cars for a longer than a day. The OPC has put in me nice little Caymans and Boxsters whenever they've had the car which is always a nice bonus.

I will have a serious think in the summer when my warranty expires - so thanks for the advice.

Back on topic - will the fact that you can now put a warranty on an older Porsches help to slow down depreciation? Surely it can only make them more desirable \ with less risk (ok - aside you non-warranty guys!)??
 
  
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