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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17009
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:13 pm    Post subject: Checking the IMS bearing and removing the outer seal Reply with quote

As some will know, my clutch went last week, so it's with my mechanic at the moment having a new one fitted.

Upside to this is we have access to the legendary IMS bearing. So with all the knowledge and learning I've gained from this wonderful website, I decided we'd have a poke around and check things out. Just got back from the garage now so perfect timing to do a quick write-up before I go out to sink a few ales (to celebrate my findings Smile ).

Before we did anything with the IMS bearing here's the sate of play:

Gearbox and clutch removed ready access.
RMS is fine and in good shape.
IMS cover-plate seal had not been fitted correctly by OPC (back in 2005) thus scuffing one side of the seal allowing oil to get out and cause a (very minor) weep
Gearbox to engine bolts had been fitted incorrectly by OPC and a long one in a short hole had snapped part of the engine casting off and stripped the bolt.


My mechanic called me an hour ago to tell me we ready ready for the unveiling of the IMS bearing (engine locked in TDC, both tensioners at that end of the shaft slackened off, oil drained).

Once we removed the seal, no grease apparent, just black oil came seeping out. Bearing was original dual row bearing (of which he says they're the same as they use in some tractor applications and can easily acquire them) and once the seal was removed, inspected to find it it in immaculate condition. Absolutely zero play in it and unable to turn the ball bearing cage without the internal one spinning twice as fast. thumbsup

With the outer seal now pinged off (so lubricated off nice clean engine oil) and the bearing in immaculate condition, it's all getting popped back together with the peace of mind if hopefully won't go pop in the future.

I must say - it's amazing how small this thing is. No wonder they couldn't handle it.

As usual a few snaps to oggle at Grin


The long bolt shredded at the end.




The broken casting,






The bearing as left the factory.




The unveiling.




Dirty black stuff.








Car should be back together later tonight and ready to pick up in the morning with new clutch fitted and properly lubricated IMS bearing with no snake oil fomula required!!!

Merry Christmas!! thumbsup Smile
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3586
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thumbsup
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Harv
Suzuka


Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 1204



PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work, I bet your glad the bearing has zero play and dosent need replacement in situ!

What bunch of monkeys put the wrong bolt in that position of the bell housing WTF Surprised presumably there's nothing that can be done to remedy?

I had the exact same oily goo residue around my ims ( sounds rude ha ha) so perhaps the seal on the cover plate deteriorates with time and slowly allows seepage. Don't forget to use thread seal on the 3 bolts for the ims cover plate if you are not replacing them

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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3586
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the bolt hole, I guess it could be TIG welded up and re-tapped?
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paul987
Kyalami


Joined: 27 Feb 2015
Posts: 1907
Location: east mids


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great pics Alex.
good news on the IMS Thumb

I still think a little snake oil should be considered Dont know Laughing
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2001 996 C4S - Silver
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kas750
Shanghai


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 4566
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy days! thumbsup
 
  
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New997buyer
Banned


Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 9150



PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thumbsup

Good write up. And like most owners it's things like sheared bolts etc, plus the er clutch, that are your actual running costs. Not the IMSB Grin

Alex Yates wrote:

I must say - it's amazing how small this thing is. No wonder they couldn't handle it.


My understanding is the vast majority, by a significant factor, handled it very well. Dont know

Anyhoo glad yours will be back in time for santa thumbsup
 
  
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arry
Hockenheim


Joined: 02 May 2015
Posts: 745
Location: South Essex


PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It always makes me wonder why so much credence is given to cars with OPC only history that they're going to be meticulously maintained by only the finest mechanics when you see threads like this (excuse the pun!) - that's really shoddy from them


Good news on the bearing. If I remember right your car is on about 80K?
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3586
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
It always makes me wonder why so much credence is given to cars with OPC only history that they're going to be meticulously maintained by only the finest mechanics when you see threads like this (excuse the pun!) - that's really shoddy from them


I tend to agree - the trouble and 'issues' often go unnoticed as a lot of people can't or won't do any work themselves or step outside the OPC network. There was a thread on PH a while ago where somebody had discovered a set of mole grips clamped onto a damper rod following some suspension 'work' being done at an OPC.

Sure there are some decent one's though.
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17009
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
If I remember right your car is on about 80K?


82k at purchase in Feb '13, now at 102k.

You only have to read the previous invoices off OPC to realise the ones that worked on mine were useless (gearbox off 3 times in 12 months for 2 clutches and an incorrectly fitted ims seal, fitted after it wasn't diagnosed correctly after the first 2 removals).

I've started to realise there's 4 types of people who work on these cars:

1.OPC monkeys not trained and capable to do what they're employed to do.
2. Snake oil "specialist" Indies who charge the same as OPC (if not more) due to their 'knowledge & experience' of working on a highly engineered mythical auto-mobile.
3. Your all round intelligent good mechanic (some Indies fall in this bracket).
4. The owners.

Trick is two know who you can trust and who you can't.
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New997buyer
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Joined: 17 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:


I've started to realise there's 4 types of people who work on these cars:

1.OPC monkeys not trained and capable to do what they're employed to do.
2. Snake oil "specialist" Indies who charge the same as OPC (if not more) due to their 'knowledge & experience' of working on a highly engineered mythical auto-mobile.
3. Your all round intelligent good mechanic (some Indies fall in this bracket).
4. The owners.

Trick is two know who you can trust and who you can't.


I agree with the last line (sic) and would suggest an amended list.

1 - Those who know what they're doing and you can trust.
2 - Those you can't.

The above types may be anywhere, OPC or otherwise. Thumb

As for the 'snake oil "specialist" Indies' comment that's a bit sweeping, surely? Hartech, Porsche Torque, 9E, Dove House, Parr, Fearnsport and many others have a fabulous reputation for a very good reason. In fact one of the reasons I can afford to run a 996 turbo as a well used daily is the above and beyond care and attention of my Indy. Same with my 996.1 which was as well cared for by Chris Turner as the 356's, 911E's and so on the he specialised in.

So I'd go easy on the generalisation that Indies are less than trustworthy Rolling Eyes
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17009
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New996buyer wrote:
alex yates wrote:


I've started to realise there's 4 types of people who work on these cars:

1.OPC monkeys not trained and capable to do what they're employed to do.
2. Snake oil "specialist" Indies who charge the same as OPC (if not more) due to their 'knowledge & experience' of working on a highly engineered mythical auto-mobile.
3. Your all round intelligent good mechanic (some Indies fall in this bracket).
4. The owners.

Trick is two know who you can trust and who you can't.



As for the 'snake oil "specialist" Indies' comment that's a bit sweeping, surely? Hartech, Porsche Torque, 9E, Dove House, Parr, Fearnsport and many others have a fabulous reputation for a very good reason. In fact one of the reasons I can afford to run a 996 turbo as a well used daily is the above and beyond care and attention of my Indy. Same with my 996.1 which was as well cared for by Chris Turner as the 356's, 911E's and so on the he specialised in.

So I'd go easy on the generalisation that Indies are less than trustworthy Rolling Eyes


Smile
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Niall996
Imola


Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Posts: 843
Location: Paris


PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good. I thought the bit about dual row bearings being still used in tractors and therefore readily available was interesting. The belief as I understood it was that this bearing could no longer be sourced.
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17009
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Niall996 wrote:
The belief as I understood it was that this bearing could no longer be sourced.


Same here.
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of curiosity does anybody know the width of the dual row bearing?
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17009
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guessing it's something like this: 47mm od x 20mm id x 18mm wide????

http://www.skf.com/group/products/bearings-units-housings/ball-bearings/deep-groove-ball-bearings/double-row-deep-groove-ball-bearings/double-row/index.html?designation=4204%20ATN9&unit=metricUnit
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Chris_in_the_UK
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont know

I seem to remember Baz saying that the issue was the bearing thickness being an oddball size?

Just curious what it was?...
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17009
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a Dual row 6204 bearing.
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
It was a Dual row 6204 bearing.


There are a few thicknesses available though ranging from 17mm up to almost 21mm.
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kas750
Shanghai


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 4566
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting comments about some of the indies..I have blood running down my chin from biting my tonque. thumbsup

Good progress on this BTW Alex. Thumb
 
  
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