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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:15 pm    Post subject: A question about Performance Tyres? Ask the Michelin Expert! Reply with quote

A question about Performance Tyres? Ask the Michelin Expert

For the next month SEPTEMBER 2015 through to the end of OCTOBER 2015 , Michelin have agreed to return to be available to answer any question that you might have on Tyres.



911uk are pleased to announce, that we have the services of Jamie McWhir, Michelin UK Technical Manager, as our "Ask The Expert" on tyres.

So if it's a question, on tyre sizes, tyre pressures, N rated tyres, tyre choice, tyre wear, mixing tyres, brands, Super sports, Cup 2's or just anything or everything on Tyres please post your question on this thread and it will answered by the expert within a short space of time Smile

Questions will be answered by Mr Jamie McWhir, Michelin UK Technical Manager

Quote:
Profile: Jamie McWhir, Michelin UK Technical Manager

Career Highlights:

- Worked in the Michelin motorsport team with the BTCC and Vauxhall 888 from 1997 to 2000
- F1 Race Engineer for Michelin, France with the Renault F1 team, working with Alonso, Button, Fisichella, Trulli, McNish & Webber
- Masters Degree in Motorsport Engineering at Cranfield
- Tyre Support Engineer, Red Bull Racing in 2007-2009
- Now Michelin Technical Manager, UK , responsible for Car, Van & 4x4 tyres



"Ask the Expert" starts on 15 September 2015 ...

FYI the previous Ask the expert series from April 2014, can be found here.
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Robertb
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2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funnily enough, just ordered 2 rear N3 Pilot Sports for my C4S to replace some PZeros which had become very noisy. Not had them before, so will be interested to see how they get on but was advised by the Porsche indy that they were a better bet.

I've just had the geo done, plus new suspension bits.

Also need to replace the front PZeros at some point, but lots of wear left in 'em...

Presumably it'll be OK to mix them til then?

Relatively leisurely road use only...
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911UK
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Michelin for coming back ! Smile Thumb

So I'll add this question. High street tyres garages promote nitrogen filling for tyres, does this have any benefit for Porsche Performance Tyres ?
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Michelin Tyres
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robertb wrote:
Funnily enough, just ordered 2 rear N3 Pilot Sports for my C4S to replace some PZeros which had become very noisy. Not had them before, so will be interested to see how they get on but was advised by the Porsche indy that they were a better bet.

I've just had the geo done, plus new suspension bits.

Also need to replace the front PZeros at some point, but lots of wear left in 'em...

Presumably it'll be OK to mix them til then?

Relatively leisurely road use only...


We always say (no difference between a Porsche and a Fiesta..) you are always running a more "optimal" fitment with 4 identical brand tyres on the car, especially 4wd cars

However, suffice to the Michelin's being the appropriate "N" fitment, it's perfectly normal and understandable to mix them as long as they are in axle sets.

Did you see the Pirelli's that came off? If they went noisy, likelyhood they had some level of irregular wear, so might be worth looking at the camber/toe settings if you haven't recently, as it would wear the PS2's out similarly through time
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T8
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jamie,

Thanks for doing this. Thumb

The uneven wear of rear tyres on a 911 seems to be a fact of life which means that many people keep them on until the inside edge is only just legal (or beyond).

Are there any issues associated with that part of the tyre being run so low on tread?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

911UK wrote:
Thanks Michelin for coming back ! Smile Thumb

So I'll add this question. High street tyres garages promote nitrogen filling for tyres, does this have any benefit for Porsche Performance Tyres ?


The big benefit with Nitrogen over normal compressed air is it tends to be drier. When Michelin did F1, we used ultra dry air.

Nitrogen will diffuse slower through a carcass and there is some research looking at how it may reduce oxidation, but again it's small effects
In an ideal world, Nitrogen is a good inflation gas, but remember Air is ~75% Nitrogen Rolling Eyes

I'd say its more important to have a good accurate pressure gauge (as the one's on the average garage forecourt aren't that great)
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
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2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michelin Tyres wrote:
Robertb wrote:
Funnily enough, just ordered 2 rear N3 Pilot Sports for my C4S to replace some PZeros which had become very noisy. Not had them before, so will be interested to see how they get on but was advised by the Porsche indy that they were a better bet.

I've just had the geo done, plus new suspension bits.

Also need to replace the front PZeros at some point, but lots of wear left in 'em...

Presumably it'll be OK to mix them til then?

Relatively leisurely road use only...


We always say (no difference between a Porsche and a Fiesta..) you are always running a more "optimal" fitment with 4 identical brand tyres on the car, especially 4wd cars

However, suffice to the Michelin's being the appropriate "N" fitment, it's perfectly normal and understandable to mix them as long as they are in axle sets.

Did you see the Pirelli's that came off? If they went noisy, likelyhood they had some level of irregular wear, so might be worth looking at the camber/toe settings if you haven't recently, as it would wear the PS2's out similarly through time


Thanks for the feedback- I will be switching the fronts to PSs once the dust has settled.

I had a full 4 wheel geo done, inc camber, and as a result a few suspension bits were replaced. Some wear on the inside is inevitable as 996 4Ss seem to have quite pronounced rear camber, but the current tyres have not so much worn on the inside as pulled the tread blocks up at the leading edge, giving them a stepped/serrated feel if you run your hands over the inside edge. This makes for a very peculiar road noise, almost like driving over a lightly ridged surface, which in effect it is.

The technician reported that the geo was well out, particularly the rear camber.

Hopefully the geo and new parts will make for a longer and happier life for the Michelins!
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s2000db
Hockenheim


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2011 Porsche 997 Turbo S

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any chance of getting my M4 up a steep hill in the snow with Winter tyres on?

Reason I ask is that I asked the tech who was a M specialist about purchasing Winter tyres, and he said he wouldn't drive a M4 in the snow no matter what?? (Which I thought was surprisingly honest as i might have bought a set from them)

Tbh I wouldn't risk my Turbo S either.... Question
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kingston
Österreich


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When are you releasing a new tyre for the 996 GT3. Had to go out the 'box' and went with PSS's in slightly to bigger size this time round.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

s2000db wrote:
Any chance of getting my M4 up a steep hill in the snow with Winter tyres on?

Reason I ask is that I asked the tech who was a M specialist about purchasing Winter tyres, and he said he wouldn't drive a M4 in the snow no matter what?? (Which I thought was surprisingly honest as i might have bought a set from them)

Tbh I wouldn't risk my Turbo S either.... Question


With a proper winter tyre and a nice gentle driving style, no reason at all why not. Yes the pile of power will mean it's not the easiest winter car, but If we can run 911 Turbo's on a winter tyre launch in Riga a few years ago, no reason why the M4 will be an issue

If you look on the door shut, there will be a tyre pressure sticker, showing what the appropriate winter/m&s fitment is. If there is one approved, then BMW M will have tested the car in proper winter conditions.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kingston wrote:
When are you releasing a new tyre for the 996 GT3. Had to go out the 'box' and went with PSS's in slightly to bigger size this time round.


What size rears are you looking for?? And I will give you a more detailed answer Cool
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askgeez
Suzuka


Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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Location: London/ Essex


PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jamie

Is there an "expiry date" on tyres ?
I know the DOT code is date of manufacture

Plenty of low mileage cars out there with say 10 year old tyres, but not much wear
Also see "new" tyres for sale that are actually made 2012

Question
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askgeez
Suzuka


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michelin Tyres wrote:

.... If we can run 911 Turbo's on a winter tyre launch in Riga a few years ago, no reason why the M4 will be an issue...




http://youtu.be/YlN9KMb5iFw

Wow worship
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kingston
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michelin Tyres wrote:
kingston wrote:
When are you releasing a new tyre for the 996 GT3. Had to go out the 'box' and went with PSS's in slightly to bigger size this time round.


What size rears are you looking for?? And I will give you a more detailed answer Cool


295/30/18.

Went up to 295/35/18 PSS, no real main issues apart from they can rub on some troughs
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

askgeez wrote:
Hi Jamie

Is there an "expiry date" on tyres ?
I know the DOT code is date of manufacture

Plenty of low mileage cars out there with say 10 year old tyres, but not much wear
Also see "new" tyres for sale that are actually made 2012

Question

Ok
Michelin recommend changing tyres if they get to 10years old (and inspect them annually after 5 years old but this is normal at an MOT) as you'll naturally see some drop in compound grip as the tyre ages, but it's not massive. Age effects are much more rapid with a tyre once it's fitted and run
A new tyre with a production date that's a couple of years old is not even remotely a worry. We (and I know most other manufacturers are the same) have very defined storage procedures where the tyres aren't exposed to sunlight and warehouse temps are kept stable
With many niche sizes as some Porsches are we don't make tyres every week so it's often the case that ages aren't very recent
So if you follow these guidelines you'll be fine.
Would a set that's 10years old be "off".. No.. But chances are that tyre will have been replaced with a newer better tyre so for improved safety grip and performance especially with a high performance car replacing them is sensible idea
Hope this helps
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s2000db
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks for your response.. Thumb
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Osh
Watkins Glen


Joined: 19 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

askgeez wrote:
Michelin Tyres wrote:

.... If we can run 911 Turbo's on a winter tyre launch in Riga a few years ago, no reason why the M4 will be an issue...




http://youtu.be/YlN9KMb5iFw

Wow worship


Great vid...

Osh
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jamie,

Really enjoying this thread and thanks in advance of any help.

I’m running Pirelli P-Zero’s on my 2003 C4S Cabriolet – I’ll probably be looking to have to replace these in the New Year as I use my car as my daily drive.

I don’t drive fast; I do a lot of motorway cruising at around 75-90. If I wanted a set of tyres that would give the most comfortable and quietest (road noise) ride, what would you recommend.

Thanks

Osh
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kingston wrote:
Michelin Tyres wrote:
kingston wrote:
When are you releasing a new tyre for the 996 GT3. Had to go out the 'box' and went with PSS's in slightly to bigger size this time round.


What size rears are you looking for?? And I will give you a more detailed answer Cool


295/30/18.

Went up to 295/35/18 PSS, no real main issues apart from they can rub on some troughs


We still make (and are in agreement with Porsche) PilotSport PS2 "N" rated for the car in the OE size. Pilot Super Sport will continue in the size you have fitted. Until we get approval on the Pilot Sport 4 range for 911's we won't be able to change anything onto the new tyre on older models.

It's in hand.. testing is in progress as we speak, but that's where we are at present.. very much status quo..
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osh wrote:
Hi Jamie,

Really enjoying this thread and thanks in advance of any help.

I’m running Pirelli P-Zero’s on my 2003 C4S Cabriolet – I’ll probably be looking to have to replace these in the New Year as I use my car as my daily drive.

I don’t drive fast; I do a lot of motorway cruising at around 75-90. If I wanted a set of tyres that would give the most comfortable and quietest (road noise) ride, what would you recommend.

Thanks

Osh


Osh

If your car is on the following combination
235 35 19 87 (Y) Front
305 30 19 102 (Y) Rear

The "N" rated options are the OE tyre Pilot Sport PS2 which is a great road tyre, and if you were using the car on track we do have a Pilot Sport Cup2 in "N" rated as well

Currently (and it's been well discussed many's an hour..) we don't have the Pilot Super Sport available in N rated for 911 models. If fits, it works, but it's not "N" marked. So it's really only a decision you can make
It depends on where you are with warranty and Porsche..
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