Buy a 991 GTS now or wait for the facelifted 991?

Andy787 · 9 May 2015

Hi all,

First time here so hello to you all.
After 20 years of Caterham 7 ownership I'm about to dive into the world of 911 ownership

With some good fortune and approval from the Boss, I'm looking at buying a 991.
Question is do I buy now or wait for the facelifted Gen 2 later in the year.

I've had the local OPC's GTS out twice and very impressed I was too. They are of the opinion that I'd be better buying a GTS now, as it's the last of the normally aspirated cars in effect, loaded up etc.

I'm kinda thinking I'd be better waiting for the Gen 2, to be launched at the Frankfurt motorshow in September. They will be 2.7 and 3.4 ltr turbo engines, for the Carrera and Carrera S. The S is what I'd buy.

The other option is a second hand 991 S, and save myself a chunk of money.

What do we think, any advice gratefully recieved :thumbs:

Cheers
Andy

Maxie · 9 May 2015

GTS is a mighty fine car. Half way house to a GT3. However, if my $$$ and I was saving, I'd look for a pre-owned GTS.....with aerokit of course.

Happy hunting

~ Maxie :thumbs:

Fox Terrier · 9 May 2015

Similar sort of position to myself. I'm going to wait for the facelift to come out. I don't get too hung up on the turbo vs NA engine distinction as I always think the proof of the pudding is in the eating (so to speak) and so will wait until the new engines are out - they could be right stonkers with a character all of their own. If I don't like them it will be a used S. Win-win really.

DRZ911 · 9 May 2015

It will be very interesting to see what a smaller engined turbo does to the character of the car at Gen 2.

No doubt that both emissions and fuel consumption will both improve. But to be seen as progress, the engines need to deliver slightly more power than current, and possess the linearity and dynamic capabilities of today's NA engines.

What do you reckon for horsepower...... 2.7 turbo maybe 365-375 and 3.4 turbo maybe 425-435? Would this be the ballpark, with say maybe another 10% or so on peak torque?

In terms of buy now, or wait to Gen 2, would go for a GTS now and see how the Gen 2 is received and niggles fixed in its first year, with maybe the possibility of going Gen 2 in 2017.

findtom · 9 May 2015

I had the same problem in Jan of this year. In the end I wanted a GTS but decided the cost was too much with a Gen 2 around the corner so to speak.

I went for a cheaper car but will look to buy a Gen 2 in the new year. If I don't like it then I think a nearly new GTS is on the cards....

AS for power, well if a Cayman GT4 is 380hp I'd bet the next base C2 will be about that or maybe a tiny bit more.....

Andy787 · 9 May 2015

Hi guys
Many thanks for the replies.

From what I can glean on the net, bhp will be around that suggested. One source saying the S will have 450+??

I really torn, local OPC said deliveries could be nov/dec and to be honest I dont want to wait that long, but recognise that might be the best thing to do.

The other option as Tom did s to get a second hand S with the spec I want now, and if the new Gen 2 is fab, trade it in next summer for a new one/ if it's not so fab, keep it.

Chap at work has a 996, and he is very positive about the slightly older cars, so in the next few days going to pop to RSJ, which is just up the road, to have a look at their 997's. Is there less leg room in the back of a 997?, as that's a major consideration for getting my son in the back.

One of the reasons I don't us my 7 much now is it's got 2 seats and there's 3 of us.....

It's a nice problem we all have isn't it :thumbs:
Cheers
Andy

T8 · 9 May 2015

In your position I think I'd go for as good a secondhand 991S as I could find and save myself a whole chunk of early depreciation.

The GTS is an awesome car but £mega new and still £silly pre-owned.

As you say, the money saved can be used if/when you want to upgrade.

I'd definitely go for a 991 as there's a lot more room in the back compared to a 997. A youngster would be ok in either but he's not going to get any smaller is he. :wink:

isysman · 9 May 2015

I read the Carrera (non S) will have 400hp. This was an interview with a Porsche guy. The S would have 'more'. I'd say probably 450hp.

Thing is, it won't have the sound of the NA car and I'm just guessing here but the NA cars will probably retain value and even appreciate as they will be the last of the NA cars.

Andy787 · 9 May 2015

Isysman, That was the sales pitch of the dealer. He used the 993/996 changeover as an example, stating that the last of the air cooled 993's are worth roughly 40k and the first of the watercooled 996's are worth 10. His opinion was that the GTS embodied the best of the normally aspirated technology and would be worth more in years to come compared to the first of the turbo cars and I should buy a GTS now..I suppose it's a fair argument and I certainly don't know enough about it to comment. Being cynical, I thought he just wanted a sale now as opposed to November..
I understand cars depreciate but just looking for the best way of limiting the inevitable, they are/will both be awesome machines. So that suggests a used one with a good spec as T8 said..

As an aside they (OPC) were prepared to do a deal on a new S, but nothing on a GTS.

I was really impressed with the room in the back of the 991, even my wife could sit in there in relative comfort :grin: can't see my son sitting in the back all the time..

Image · 9 May 2015

Save even more money and buy a 997.2S ..... play with it for a year or so and get used to Porsche driving ........... then .... if you like the noise and have the spare money go for a 991.2 GT3 ............... A proper car?

isysman · 9 May 2015

It's speculation but I think he was saying some truths. For Porsche to make all their range (except the GT3s) turbo charged really is a turning point in their history. Only time will tell how that history goes but what we've seen so far is that the air cooled cars are treasured (by many) of Porsche fans.

I expect this will happen with the NA cars but it's hard to know which ones. The GTS is a special car at least with the 997. As someone said, it's a cross over with the Carrera S and GT3 models. They are stunning cars and sound amazing. One of the things about the experience of driving a Porsche is the sound. I've owned four Porsches and the only real disappointment with my 997 Turbo was the lack of a great sound. As magnificent as the car was, I felt there was a portion of the package missing. I've sort of fixed it with a Kline exhaust, which for a Turbo now sounds great. However when I had a 2.7 Boxster On loan recently with no sports exhaust as soon as a started the car I was jealous of the sound!

I'm not saying you should buy any car, I'm not trying to push you in any direction, I'm just saying what I think about the future and about what I think will happen. It depends what you are looking for.

The GTS is a lovely car, ignoring all of the above but if you take in the above they could appreciate in the future. But it will probably be a while. They might initially lose value if the new car is very good (which I'm sure it will be) but people will start to want to secure themselves a last of the NA cars at some point. And the GTS is a limited car. Not restricted as such but limited by the amount ordered.

The Sports exhaust could be a thing of the past soon!

Andy787 · 9 May 2015

That's a very good point. One of the things I love about the 7 is the sound. It may only be a 1800, but at 8000 rpm with the side exit exhaust it sounds fantastic.
The GTS I've driven was the same, different in tone for sure but still visceral. Both cars pop and bang on the overrun, lovely.

There is a clip on u tube I found of the new gen2 car accelerating way from some lights in Germany during testing. No audible exhaust noise, just a whine/whoosh from the turbo could be heard...

Right, im going back there next week and have the GTS out again.
I actually put down a deposit on a new gen2, first in the dealership to that, so that would be easy to swap over to a used car or new GTS, or take back and hunt elsewhere.

Arrgh, it's so much easier when there's no choice!

isysman · 9 May 2015

Yes my old car used to have that crackle on the over run. There was a road near my house I could hear it reverberating off the houses as I approached the junction. Every time I arrive at that point in the road now I miss it.

If you can get a drive in a Turbo it might help you, I'd go as a passenger though because they are quite addictive but you will hear the difference.

And with 430hp in a 991 GTS you won't be lacking any power when the new car comes out I don't think.

Fox Terrier · 10 May 2015

I think we really will have to wait and see what the turbo engines are like. This is another really important change in the history of the 911 - akin to the change to liquid cooled engines. However, air-cooled 911s are not rising in price now because they are better, or even because of the medium used for cooling. It's because they are a wonderful curiosity that is becoming rarer and that rarity is a commodity in itself. Just have a look at the price of original Minis - there's an investment!
Porsche clearly believe that turbo charging is the way forward as they believed that liquid-cooling was. Just wait until the hybrids come out! For many of us though there will be an 'essential' 911 be it air-cooled, naturally aspirated or whatever. And that's the beauty of the 911. For the next new generation of 911 enthusiasts though, naturally aspirated engines will be a funny (beardy) anachronism.

PS. I could be wrong though :grin:

isysman · 10 May 2015

Porsche are being forced to go down the forced induction road because of emissions, not because they think it's the way forward as such. It's a compromise to keep competitive just in the same way Ferrari are heading.

In fact Ferrari have spent millions in R&D to make the new Turbo cars behave like a NA car would. There was a great article by Chris Harris where he described the way they have done this.

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