Porsche 911UK Forum

Welcome to the @Porsche911UK website. Register a free account today to become a member! Sign up is quick and easy, then you can view, participate in topics and posts across the site that covers all things Porsche.

Already registered and looking to recovery your account, select 'login in' and then the 'forget your password' option.

My 991 GTS - First ever Porsche, the 'Dreaded Friday car'

h2009

Member
Joined
12 Mar 2014
Messages
22
This is my story of my first Porsche.... But before I go into the details, I just want to make it clear that the dealership have been helpful trying to deal with these issues (mostly). Although a few people within the dealership have said its a sports car, so it will rattle!
Also I haven't be able to take pictures of all my issues as the camera can't pickup the marks or problems happened before I've had time to get my camera on.

So after much debating on what car I should get I decided on a GTS. Order went into the dealership in December and I received my car 14 March 2015.

Options are 'my thing' so I ordered the car fully loaded (only thing missing is the aero kit).

14 March 2015
Went to the dealership to collect it and hopefully have a great first drive....After going through the new owner part of the process, I noticed a few imperfections in the car's interior and body. The car was quickly polished up and everything I could see under the showroom lights was addressed.
The only thing that annoyed me when spending £135k+ on a car is that it came with 2/5 of a fuel in the tank - I mean, really come on!

Starting the car for the first time with 9 miles on the clock inside the dealership 'Low Battery" but the car started nicely and I took it out for a spin. Only 30 seconds into my first drive after signing the completion documents hit with another error 'ACC/PAS unavailable Service Required". Returned back into the dealership and they hooked it upto the computer. The engineer showed me the screen and it was a 'just a low battery issue, driving the car would be fine and you won't have any issue once the battery is charged." So I was happy considering I was about to drive half way up the country to have PaintShield placed on my car (full wrap). So I make my way home - its now 5.30pm and rush hour is killing me, so no chance to drive the car but thats ok because I've got my long drive tomorrow....



15 March 2015
I start my car up 3.30am after getting it from the dealership the next morning same faults on my system. So I think ok, just needs more charging.
I get on the open motorway (no cars what so ever given the time) and have some fun driving the car. Every few minutes getting the ACC/PAS unavailable Service Required message. After 100 miles I pull off turn the car on/off thinking the car battery must be fully charged and set my ACC up at 80mph - cruising along for a few miles - BAM! The car has just done a slam dunk emergency stop to about 10mph and then blasts up through the gears back to 80mph. Seconds later ACC/PAS unavailable Service Required. Thank god no one was around me (in front or behide). The motor section I was on at the time was 100% straight.

Anyway this issue occurs non-stop my whole drive. I switch off the ACC and control the speed manually. Although I'm still getting the ACC/PAS unavailable Service Required messages popup. I was thinking to myself: 'why am I only getting a message? Surely if there is a problem with the ACC/PAS there should be some audible warning?!" Nothing in my case - recall issue I think is needed on this matter.

http://youtu.be/XvgyOxnfsJE - VIDEO of 'slow example'

Whilst all this is going on, I'm playing my music (fairly loud) Burmester System (upgraded and at a large expense) all set to default settings and on certain songs/timings I'm getting really bad rattling sounds! Any road surface and driving/standing still. Sounds like there is loose metal in my doors/roof/switches.
I get so fed up with the rattles i turn the sound system off, Sport Exhausts system on - Great I can listen to my engine.....
Errm no - I hear this metal rattling sound from my engine - which sounds like the heat shield hitting something in the engine bay. Also I notice a wind whistle noise from my driver side door and a bunch of rattles from the rear quarters.
What more can possibly go wrong!

I arrived at 6.30am and I email the dealership and call them to alert them to the issues and tell them the car isn't really safe with the ACC.

Anyway after a 4 hour drive up to Peterborough to get my car wrapped, they start to wash and prep the car. I get called in....
They show me under the front spoiler that there are scratches on it - now I know I haven't driven over anything so this must have happened in the dealership.
I call the dealership up and tell him this right away and send photos. As I'm on the phone the Paintshields guys notice major imperfections with my bonnet - lots of dust under the paint work and a long 100% straight line that looks like lots of tiny scratches that can't be polished out. At this point I said my dealership sales guy, what do I do. I've managed to get the car up without any stone chips only to find these imperfections. Long story short, I got the car wrapped and the dealership said they would talk to me when I come back in for the other faults.







The wrap on continues and we find may more scratches more so importantly on the plastic part of the glass sunroof, so no wrapping at this point as its not going to be chipped by stones.
The car is fully wrapped over the weekend.

I also notice that my interior has stained blue from my 2 year old jeans! Also my girlfriends shoes which are red has dyed the carpets on the centre tunnel. Not only that but the metal is staining a darker colour when in contact natural hand oils/water.

16 March 2015
Monday morning arrives and I'm straight back into the dealership. They've got the car for 1 week to try to fix these issues. I come back to find that the ACC shielding has been removed nothing mentioned to me about that. They replaced the steering wheel and polished out the black plastic on the sunroof. All other issues remain.

21 March 2015
All the other issues they say can't be heard or seen. So I give them examples of the problem and left it with them again for a few days.

27 March 2015 to 30 March 2015
I have my car back and use again. Same issues with the ACC, rattles, wind noise etc. I drop my car off to the dealership after phoning them on the weekend alerting them again to these issues already discussed.

31 March 2015
I making a full written statement to them listing all the issues with the car. Which they accept but being that its Easter weekend the car goes to them on 7 April 2015.

7 April 2015
Car dropped off to the dealership and I'm giving 991 C2 (bog standard spec - boring car).

16 April 2015
I get a call saying the issues have been resolved and the car is ready for you to collect.
I turn up at the dealership and go to inspect it. Right way some of the issues with the staining interiors have not been done.
Anyway I go for a test drive and find the rattles are all still in the car and nothing has changed. The only thing that appears to be fixed is the ACC but I can't be sure without a long test drive.

Speaking with sales manager I ask for my car to be replaced at this point which they refuse as they need to be given a chance to fix it. So instead I allow them this but as compensation we've agreed on a number of points (extended warranty and painting of the damaged areas of paintwork).

29 April 2015
No update from the dealership so I go to seem them. They believed they resolved all the issue bar the wind whistle. Later on I sent an email to them asking for a refund if the car isn't fully repaired by 5 May 2015.

30 April 2015
I received a call saying good news the we've found the issue with the wind noise and its was the wing mirror with the paintshield. I asked if they were 100% sure. After confirming to me they replaced the unit from another car and said the noise was a lot better. I at that point said 'how is that possible when the issue was there before the paintshield was applied to the car?".
So to cut to the chase, they aren't sure this is the issue and still have the car. I also call up Paintshield and ask if they've ever had this issue with any other Porsche or any other GTS they've covered. You can guess the answer is no.
Later on, I receive a call saying the car is ready to collection tomorrow...

1 May 2015
I go to the dealership to test the car, and there is a noticeable change in quality that is generally much better than before.
Going out with the techs driving it I notice that the wind whilst has improved but still is on going on the driver side. The sound system rattles are still there on the same songs. The tech did say he can't hear anything in terms of the outstanding issues.
As for the ACC, I did see it behave unexpectedly for a short time (seconds) during and I don't believe this issue is resolved.

I jumped into another car and tested the same songs on another car fitted with BMS speakers and I don't hear the same issues with rattles. I've got a BOSE system in my loan car and that is perfect on these issues.

In summary, I have requested a refund on my car but still awaiting the news on whether they will honour this. Also if they issue a refund I would expect to refunded the £4k spent on the Paintshield and the tracker subscription.

6 May 2015
So after a few email exchanges over my car, with the dealer stating once again the car is how it should be; I requested for a like for like model to test out the last reminding issues namely with the ACC.

12 May 2015
Today I have an email from the dealer with the following extract:

"We are working to find an appropriate car for you to road test as a back to back drive to confirm how Porsche have set up ACC to work for this Thursday at 2.00pm.
As I stated in my previous e mail I am happy that your car has been set up to perform as it should according to Porsche and and that it is working correctly, however, I am happy for us to compare it to another 911.
We may not be able to provide a GTS for this test, however, I would expect that any 911 should display the same operational performance, possibly without the same level of acceleration.
I assume that if the ACC performs in the same manner on the other car as yours then you will accept that that is how it is meant to work?
If so, I would ask that you collect your car from us on Thursday."

So I arrange for Thursday the 14 May to go in once again

14 May 2015
I arrive at the dealer to carry out the test on the ACC, to find out the car they've got for me is 2013 991 part Ex.
Myself and the head tech take the car out with me driving as normal, with the ACC set on.
After 10 minutes of motorway driving it's clear this car is working how it should be, with it never missing a beat on the car lane detection.

However we did see the random "speed acceleration in certain conditions" so therefore I accept it a Porsche bad software programming that causing the car to randomly race back up to the set speed, rather than "acccerate safety like other manfactures".

Shortly afterward we return back into my car to see the difference. Within a few minutes it was clear my car was detecting cars in other lanes and didn't have the same lane "control" and was over sensitive. The tech did say it pretty clear my car isn't right and asked what I was going to do: (continue with my quest for a refund or get them to repair it).

We return once again to the dealership and I await the chat over with the manager.
Given now we've had a side by side car pick by the dealership this is a clear case now. As I'm chatting with the manager and he accepted the cars is different and mine is more sensative. He actually said "your car is working how it should be and there's nothing more we can do". I then replied annoyed at his response "what so your own tech has seen the difference and you think this is how the car should be although your tech agreed it needs works?! I'm going to accept my car at all and now is enough time to give the refund."
The conversation goes on and on how he thinks the car software was updated (based on nothing then his opinion as they still have not had any Offical response from Germany) to make it more sensitive - in other words break something that was working and make it unusable.

I simply said "here are your keys back for the hire car if you want them, I'm not going to take my car at all and I suggest you get the ACC unit replaced as it's broken. But if you do take the hire car keys back be assured my next point of call will be the solicitors".
Needless to say I still have the hire car keys and awaiting an update as of today (18/5/15).
To date I still hear rattles with the sound system, wind noise through the driver door and the ACC. I've come to the conclusion that the rattles are never going to be fixed. But the ACC should be fixed at the very least.
However it's now near been 2 months without my car and I've had more than enough and just want my money back. With the next gens on the way what's the point in my car now? I did after all have my money on the next gen car anyway to start.

Milage now is 1370.




The next issue more importantly for all those with cruise control:

ACC Cruise Control:
When my system had these errors there was no audible warning given out therefore if I wasn't expecting the system to fail and getting ready to override it then I would have crashed. The only warning I got was on the display but not a single sound which is what you need when you are driving! Can everyone with ACC check their cars to see if they give an audible alert in a error event (i.e. bag caught over the camera when using it). If not Porsche need to do an update to fix this ASAP across every car.

Normal Cruise Control:
I've noticed a major issue with every loan car I've driven! Whilst its not serious, it does show that QC is a thing of the past and there are bugs in the software.
Have a look at these videos - 2 videos showing cruise control can't be set on 30mph or 50 mph. Odd yes? And just to confirm that is from 2 different cars both 15' plates.
http://youtu.be/3rZBpyIyoMk
http://youtu.be/zCvs6bOylQU

So that is my first ever Porsche experience. Great isn't it!

My questions to you guys now:

1) For those with ACC fitted if your system results in an error (if it ever does?) do you get a audible warning?
2) If you were in my shoes would you demand a new car under consumer protection laws now?
3) Does anyone know where I would legally stand assuming they believe the car is 'fixed' despite the fact I can still hear/see issues?
4) Anyone with a GTS 4wd had any issues like this?






[/b]
 
Think a re-fund is the only answer, I used to own a 991S and it was pretty faultless other than a couple of software updates.

Unfortunately it would indeed seem like you've a 'Friday' car.
 
I would want a replacement, you have given them enough chances. I would be going direct to Porsche gb with your email and get them involved to speed up the process.
 
Not sure re your rights to get vehicle replaced, as below perhaps Porsche GB is the answer initially!? however sometimes little things give clues to the quality of service you receive or are likely to receive in future.
OPC' s seem to vary dramatically, on my part on collecting a used 4 year old 997 from Porsche Belfast, the vehicle was supplied in absolutely perfect condition (with a full tank of fuel!) and I would 100 % buy my next 911 from them.
Your situation is obviously very different, which OPC? No harm naming them as your only stating facts of your purchase.
Had a few brand new cars, 9 miles seems low if the vehicle has been properly inspected and tested prior to sale?
 
Have yet to own a 991GTS, but the car is obviously not right at all. After spending that amount of money, I would insist on every aspect being put right, or money back.

My 12 year old 996 turbo has less issues than that! I seriously hope this experience doesn't put you off the marque, as the 911 has a lot to offer when they are running correctly.


As an aside, I had a similar experience albeit with a quad bike. Bought a new Honda (supposedly the best quality) which went back to the dealer 5 times in 18 hours for repeated faults. They, (Honda), point-blank refused to give me my money back, but the supplying dealer bent over backwards to try to fix it, eventually buying it back off me at cost. Somehow I can't see your OPC doing the same...... :nooo:

I sincerely hope you get the car to your satisfaction soon. Good luck!
 
mark esc cos said:
I would want a replacement, you have given them enough chances. I would be going direct to Porsche gb with your email and get them involved to speed up the process.
:bye:


:agree:
 
Terrible story. Hope everything gets sorted.

I've just gone into my garage and patted my 'old' 997 and promised I'll keep it for quite a few more years. :grin:
 
Yep, full refund/replacement. You are fully entitled!

I would go with the former and then go to another dealer.

Btw, must be some list of options! :puh:
 
DynoMike said:
mark esc cos said:
I would want a replacement, you have given them enough chances. I would be going direct to Porsche gb with your email and get them involved to speed up the process.
:bye:


:agree:

^^^^^ this, my normal tactic with dealers is to get the dealer principles email address, email him and porsche GB.

Simply state the facts, timelines being the most relevant here, then state how you feel and then ask him 1 question = does he think his dealership represents porsche GB in a way he is satisfied with. Ask him to answer that one question with a simple yes or no. If he states yes then tell him you will consider your options, if he states no ask him how HE will resolve it.

Forcing the principle to take personal responsibility usually does the trick (especially with Mercedes :grin: )
 
Thanks for your replies.

The dealer principle has been informed the whole process since the last visit/current period its in. Also Porsche GB are aware of the issues and at the moment not doing anything.

The dealer principle spoke with me today and he believe after "personally testing" it that the car perfect now. He actually drove it on Thursday the day before I went to test it. In all honestly I think they believe I'm picking holes in the car to get my money back - despite having the deposit with them for over a year! They knew exactly the process I went through buying and spec'ing my car. Now I'm fed up with the issues and going back and forth to the dealership trying to prove time and time again the issues.
Simply put, that not my job although I'm bloody good at fault finding!

Its worth noting that, when the car was handed to the dealership there was 903 miles on it, now there is 1300+

The dealership have offered a number perks when the was handed to them back in April. But at that point I was not expecting it to take 1 month to fix!
The perks include:
2 year extended warranty
Paint corrections at any point in the future for the bump and bonnet once the paintshield has been removed
Leather treatment to help prevent staining (how good this will be I don't know!)

I'm going to the dealership tomorrow to do another road test and try and prove to them there is still wind noise from the driver door seals. The same sound can be produced on any other car by simply pushing the window outwards when its nearly closed. Try this on your car and listen to what its like.
As mentioned above this noise is mostly fixed but its not silent like the passenger side.

I would really like to hear if anyone can shed some legal light on this matter for me.
 
There was a guy who made videos about a similar experience with his car. They eventually replaced it and he's happy wit h his new car. It seems a dude comes out from time to time. Seems to be an issue with the QC. How this car could have passed is beyond me.

Bottom line I wouldn't accept anything but a refund/replacement car.
 
Yes his name was Nick. I've now watched his videos and you know his issues are worse than mine as a whole. And the majority of the issues are resolved or atleast seem resolved on my car.

But still I'm waiting on the next thing to go wrong. The only way I find issues is by driving the car. I bought this car to be a weekend car and now I'm having to do QC checks on it.
The biggest issue is with the ACC of that keeps failing when I'm not expecting it to fail and my car does something random and kills me/another person. Then what? Porsche I feel have an obligation to recall my car and potentially others as well.
We all know how rapid the car is and if anyone has see how fast the ACC accelerates then you'll understand where I'm coming from.
 
Sounds like a dog.

Reject it ASAP(put it in writing and sign the letter). Citing numerous QC issues and after giving them the opportunities to rectify issues, they still remain. Hopefully you will have met your legal obligations. Record the date/timeline.

I'd leave it at the dealer vs taking it home if I was you(if your still not happy and after sending the formal rejection letter) and tell them you want a courtesy car until that one is replaced.

Your issue is with the dealer not PGB but worth sending them a copy of your signed letter.

The sooner you formally reject the better.

"Rejecting a new car template letter

Your Address

The dealership address

Dear Sir/Madam,

I recently bought a car from your company (name company) on (date). The car is (model, make, reg number). A major fault(s) with the vehicle has been apparent since (when?). I am dissatisfied with the product I have bought from you and as such I would like to reject this car.

The faults with the car are as follows (describe the faults) and I have had an independent inspection of my vehicle (name garage). They have listed the faults as follows (list what the independent expert says)

OR

I have allowed the dealership (name dealership) to attempt to fix the problem (s) with my car. To date, the car has been with your mechanics (how many times?) in (how many weeks/months?) I made it clear from the outset in writing that my allowing you to repair would not affect my right of rejection and accordingly as you have been given ample opportunity to correct the faults with the vehicle, but with no satisfactory conclusion, I am therefore rejecting this car.

I refer you to the Sale of Goods Act 1979, specifically Section 14 which details that the car I bought from you must be of satisfactory quality. From my own judgement and that of the independent expert (name garage) I believe that the car you have sold me is not of a satisfactory quality, as such I believe you are contravening Section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

I request that you pay me the full amount for my car which totals (£ how much did you buy the car for?) or replace it with another equivalent car. I expect to hear from you to confirm you have received this letter so we can arrange a refund or replacement within the next two weeks. I have stopped driving the car in line with my rejection and I request that you collect it at the earliest opportunity.

If you fail to accept my right to reject this car I will be forced to progress with legal proceedings in the County Court in order to recover the money.

Yours Sincerely "


Best of luck.
 
I'd personally demand a refund - the car is always going to be tainted in your eyes which is no good having spent that dollar.

I recently bought a 991 GTS from an OPC- the car has no issues at all and feels rock solid in all departments......however, this was my first buy from an OPC and I was shocked by the general service- it was appalling - I was expecting the full OPC 'Porsche experience' instead I was simply antagonised by the sales staff attitude and incompetence at all times- I complained to the branch manager who apologised but in future I will stay well clear from them.

I hope you get your issues resolved to your satisfaction- at this price range there is no excuse....you are entitled to a perfect car and service.
 
With the margins OPCs can make, the high-end prices they can charge and the marque they represent, incompetence and/or shirking of responsibility is clearly not acceptable. I can imagine the conundrum you have of going down the refund route versus getting your car completely sorted, like you appear to favour, I would give them the chance to fix it, but this feels like you should be at the end of that road now, last chance saloon (coupe!).

Last year I spent a 20% of what you did on a 20 year old 933 that developed a couple of issues and the non-franchised dealer resolved them without quibble whilst minimising any inconvenience to me. Retailers choose how to conduct themselves. I can understand you not mentioning the OPC in question while this is still a live situation, but maybe when appropriate it would inform others if you did.
 

New Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
124,359
Messages
1,439,509
Members
48,718
Latest member
TJno1
Back
Top