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CAE Ultrashift group buy

Hi Senoj

Ultimately without knowing the exact dimensions and as a result the lever ratio it could turn out to be a load of old tosh....., but what Nick mentioned seems to make sense to me based on the picture.

As I see it, the shift cables will have a fixed displacement to change gear. My own car which is a 996 GT3 fitted with the 997 GT3 shifter has a gear knob travel of 80-90mm. This will deliver the required displacement of the cables at a given load applied by myself.

Now if I reduce the shift knob displacement to 65mm while maintaining the same displacement at the cables then I need to change the lever ratio. I can do this by shortening the lever above the pivot and as a result the applied load required at the knob to shift gears goes up. Alternatively, the length of the arm below the pivot could be increased. Again, the applied load required at the knob goes up.

In the case of the CAE shifter they have made the arm above the pivot very long yet reduced the shift knob travel. The pivot position and length of the arm below the pivot are key to delivering the same displacement required at the cables. In this case they have raised the pivot to minimise the lever ratio increase, but there is a risk that they couldn't package enough space to match the original car (it looks a very long upper arm compared to anything else I've seen before). Therefore, if the ratio has increase as suspected then the required applied load to make the shift will have reduced.

The problem is that in some cases the driver does not reduce the applied load and therefore the revised lever ratio results in a higher load being seen at the gearbox even though the driver has no idea they are doing anything wrong. This could result in the bent shift forks mentioned by Nick.

As mentioned above, this is just guesswork based on a gut feeling looking at a picture and the feedback from Nick which looked likely at first glance. The measurements would confirm for sure and i'll get ready to eat humble pie. I have a spare GT3 shifter somewhere and may dig it out through curiosity....

I had hoped to introduce myself to my fellow GT owners somehow, but hopefully without pissing anyone off first!
 
Craig J said:
Hi Senoj

Ultimately without knowing the exact dimensions and as a result the lever ratio it could turn out to be a load of old tosh....., but what Nick mentioned seems to make sense to me based on the picture.

As I see it, the shift cables will have a fixed displacement to change gear. My own car which is a 996 GT3 fitted with the 997 GT3 shifter has a gear knob travel of 80-90mm. This will deliver the required displacement of the cables at a given load applied by myself.

Now if I reduce the shift knob displacement to 65mm while maintaining the same displacement at the cables then I need to change the lever ratio. I can do this by shortening the lever above the pivot and as a result the applied load required at the knob to shift gears goes up. Alternatively, the length of the arm below the pivot could be increased. Again, the applied load required at the knob goes up.

In the case of the CAE shifter they have made the arm above the pivot very long yet reduced the shift knob travel. The pivot position and length of the arm below the pivot are key to delivering the same displacement required at the cables. In this case they have raised the pivot to minimise the lever ratio increase, but there is a risk that they couldn't package enough space to match the original car (it looks a very long upper arm compared to anything else I've seen before). Therefore, if the ratio has increase as suspected then the required applied load to make the shift will have reduced.

The problem is that in some cases the driver does not reduce the applied load and therefore the revised lever ratio results in a higher load being seen at the gearbox even though the driver has no idea they are doing anything wrong. This could result in the bent shift forks mentioned by Nick.

As mentioned above, this is just guesswork based on a gut feeling looking at a picture and the feedback from Nick which looked likely at first glance. The measurements would confirm for sure and i'll get ready to eat humble pie. I have a spare GT3 shifter somewhere and may dig it out through curiosity....

I had hoped to introduce myself to my fellow GT owners somehow, but hopefully without pissing anyone off first!

All good here, and a really concise bit of theory which I'll take
a punt on is probably pretty accurate. But, as you say the 'proof
is in the pudding'...

I've had major issues in changing gear for some time...I've managed
to get through two clutch forks (one at Portimao, last year, and this
April, I had a repetition of the same fault at Spa). Second to third is a
bit of an issue, even when warmed up..OPC says the clutch shows very
little wear, but the last two or so inches of pedal travel just feels really
notchy, like there's some resistance in it's action.

Once I get this sorted, the idea of a bullet proof gear change certainly
appeals.
:grin:
 
Hi Nick

Just from what you have described the pedal feel should only be down to the clutch cover, hydraulic system or pedal itself. A clutch plate may not appear to be worn but the release springs could have seen better days in the cover itself. This could give the non-linearity in the release load that you describe. Some people have been known to replace drive plates without changing the cover and once this has been done it is hard to track the age of either part of the assembly if that makes sense.

Potentially some of the hydraulic clutch parts could be worn which means that beyond a certain point there is the potential that any load which is not exactly in line with the axis of a cylinder tends to cause the cylinder to bind or show resistance. This could also be true of the pedal mechanism and attachment which starts to bind as it goes over centre and the angle of the applied load changes. I would think that both of these are pretty rare.

I know this might sound a little odd, but are you sure nothing is getting in the way of the pedal, carpet, wiring harness or the like?

My guess would be the cover, but it would be interesting to get the release load measured but unfortunately this is not something any old garage can do.

As for the shift from 2nd to 3rd, this may be down to a worn syncro ring or dog ring which prevent the gears from synchronising or engaging the dogs during the shift. When this happens the shift is slow and then drivers tend to try to compensate by applying more force damaging other components like shift forks. Out of interest have you changed to a different oil in the gearbox? This can often have a negative effect when a gearbox and its synchronisers have been developed with a certain oil in mind which may or may not have specific friction modifiers. The reason for it being 2nd to 3rd could be because this is where the biggest ratio step change is and also where the torque applied to the driveline is at its highest.

Sorry for another essay, but hope that gives some ideas/suggestions. I don't know the GT3 inside out yet but i'm going based on experience of other cars.

Cheers
 
Craig J said:
I know this might sound a little odd, but are you sure nothing is getting in the way of the pedal, carpet, wiring harness or the like?

Hmmm

:?:
 
Stuart said:
Craig J said:
I know this might sound a little odd, but are you sure nothing is getting in the way of the pedal, carpet, wiring harness or the like?

Hmmm

:?:

I only wish it was the carpet ....lol :floor:
 
Stuart said:
Craig J said:
I know this might sound a little odd, but are you sure nothing is getting in the way of the pedal, carpet, wiring harness or the like?

Hmmm

:?:

:floor: :floor: :floor:

Craig J, you will never know why that is funny...sorry.


I get it re the shifter. Would be interesting to hear CAE's point of view on it.
 
The mind boggles wrt Nick W's carpet 'issue'!

Sooooo.. What's the question I need to ask CAE and I'll come back with their answer?
 
Roro said:
The mind boggles wrt Nick W's carpet 'issue'!

Sooooo.. What's the question I need to ask CAE and I'll come back with their answer?

How about cut and paste this thread into an email and ask them to comment?
 
How does the lever ratio compare with the standard 996 or 997 gt3 and therefore are the loads in the system the same? For example is it just a standard gear lever increased in size by 200% with the same ratio. For a normal applied load at the gearstick do the loads at the gearbox remain the same?
 
Cheers Craig, I'll ask :thumb:

Dan, language could be an issue given CAE are German, cutting n pasting all this into an email might be information overload given English not their first language :lol:

... I'm still mildly peeved at the cost differential between the CAE for Mini's vs. Porsche (about 30% more)... But I should be used to that by now so no point going there!
 
I haven't forgotten about this, I've just messaged CAE again today as I didn't get a response last week. Will update if / when I hear anything.
 
Alot of factories are in the Eu but will no doubt have a skeleton crew running
 

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