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Considering selling my 991....shocked by my dealer's offer
- Thread starter whitesteed
- Start date
MisterCorn
Fuji
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2011
- Messages
- 9,411
If the car was bought new for £87k inc VAT and they are offering you £71k with no VAT involved then as far as the dealer is concerned they are only offering you £1.5k under the full price aren't they?
I understand that the dealer will pay VAT on their profit on the car, so they could sell it on for perhaps £76k but it seems that the advantage to the secondhand buyer is purely in the fact that the entire cost of the vehicle doesn't have VAT applied to it.
I appreciate from the viewpoint of the OP it appears to be a £16k depreciation though, but it seems to me that that is mainly tax.
MC
I understand that the dealer will pay VAT on their profit on the car, so they could sell it on for perhaps £76k but it seems that the advantage to the secondhand buyer is purely in the fact that the entire cost of the vehicle doesn't have VAT applied to it.
I appreciate from the viewpoint of the OP it appears to be a £16k depreciation though, but it seems to me that that is mainly tax.
MC
jackliebling
New member
- Joined
- 4 Nov 2011
- Messages
- 11
sell it privately for £80k...
Firstly and most importantly, sorry to hear of your predicament!
Personally I don't really buy the tax arguement. I can see the maths behind it but do second hand buyers really look at the tax implications or just look at how much they are saving against buying it new?? Markets work on supply and demand and hence dictate the price, hence why GT3 4.0 is for sale well over list.
I think that's the main thing to bear in mind, you've also got to pay for their margin they need to make on it, so the end buyer would probably pay list -£8/10k for it to save some cash, add on the OPC margin of (I'm guessing min of 5k) and seems to be in the ballpark. Not sure if OPC do a sale or return, so guessing best bet would be private sale or sale or return trough an indy.
I suggest keeping an eye on pheads and autotrader to see where people are offering them and where they are selling to get an idea of price.
Personally I don't really buy the tax arguement. I can see the maths behind it but do second hand buyers really look at the tax implications or just look at how much they are saving against buying it new?? Markets work on supply and demand and hence dictate the price, hence why GT3 4.0 is for sale well over list.
I think that's the main thing to bear in mind, you've also got to pay for their margin they need to make on it, so the end buyer would probably pay list -£8/10k for it to save some cash, add on the OPC margin of (I'm guessing min of 5k) and seems to be in the ballpark. Not sure if OPC do a sale or return, so guessing best bet would be private sale or sale or return trough an indy.
I suggest keeping an eye on pheads and autotrader to see where people are offering them and where they are selling to get an idea of price.
The VAT aspect is pretty irrelevant. That VAT on the new car is done, paid to HMRC - out of the equation. Vast majority of purchasers cannot reclaim the VAT on a new car so again the VAT on a new car means nothing, the total OTR is the price they pay. The car is then recycled second hand at market value with no VAT consideration. That might well be as much as the new list price of car inclusive of VAT. That wouldn't mean the seller has profited 20% because he hasn't reclaimed the VAT.
Mark Pearce hits the nail on the head, the 991 isn't the holy grail, and you can get your hands on a new factory order one pretty quick so generally speaking anyone buying used would want a little more value than just a few grand off. Dealer has to make a margin and of course they pay VAT on the profit.
I feel of the op, I know exactly what it feels like to be driving something that due to unforeseen circumstances has become unaffordable and so much worse it has come about prematurely in this case making the loss seem so harsh but that is the reality of buying a new car at full list - it does take a long time for the depreciation to curb off.
I hate to say it, but its worth what its worth. Private sale or sale or return will return you slightly more but may take some time.
Best of luck
Mark Pearce hits the nail on the head, the 991 isn't the holy grail, and you can get your hands on a new factory order one pretty quick so generally speaking anyone buying used would want a little more value than just a few grand off. Dealer has to make a margin and of course they pay VAT on the profit.
I feel of the op, I know exactly what it feels like to be driving something that due to unforeseen circumstances has become unaffordable and so much worse it has come about prematurely in this case making the loss seem so harsh but that is the reality of buying a new car at full list - it does take a long time for the depreciation to curb off.
I hate to say it, but its worth what its worth. Private sale or sale or return will return you slightly more but may take some time.
Best of luck
JD27 said:
Whaaaaaaaaat? Sorry?! Did this guy have a gun pointed at his head when he was either handing over the north side of £80K in cash or (far more likely) agreeing to some sort of bullsh*t credit deal for a totally impractical high-powered car? I very much doubt it.
I'm sure that I could walk in to any Ford dealership tomorrow and spec a new Ford Mondeo up to around £23K. After 4 months and 2k miles I'd be lucky to get £15K back for it from the same dealer - with a view to him slapping it out on to his forecourt the next day for around £19.9K.
Let's face it; you're either rich enough or gullible enough to buy a new car these days.
There's never been any gamble in buying a brand new car: you're always going to lose in the short term - particularly in this model's case.
BTW: have you seen how rapidly 997.2's are moving off forecourts recently...? :?:
adrian996 said:
Must say this is one of the strangest posts I've seen on 911uk and completely out of character with all the other threads and posts I've seen since being a member.
None of us know the personal circustances behind Whitesteed's reasons for having to sell the car so I think the merits of buying a new vs a second had car should be kept to another thread.
Personally, I feel 911uk is a great forum to provide people with advice and help, not an arena for releveling in someone else's misfortune.
I stand by my previous post, Whitesteed, I hope things work out OK
T8
Super Moderator
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2010
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- 21,393
Re: Considering selling my 991....shocked by my dealer's off
It probably won't make it much easier to swallow but it might help a bit to think of it more as a far cheaper way to have experienced a brand new 911 than hiring one.
You've had the benefit of driving a brand new 911 for 4 months and it's costs you £16k. To have hired the same car would have probably cost you £400 a day = £12k a month. ie, you saved yourself £32k. :dont know:
whitesteed said:
It probably won't make it much easier to swallow but it might help a bit to think of it more as a far cheaper way to have experienced a brand new 911 than hiring one.
You've had the benefit of driving a brand new 911 for 4 months and it's costs you £16k. To have hired the same car would have probably cost you £400 a day = £12k a month. ie, you saved yourself £32k. :dont know:
There's no revelling being done by me - I've been there myself! Not meant as a personal attack on the OP either....just identifying the fact that you're always going to lose big time when you buy new.
A fact which I'm more than familiar with personally; I've lost over 65% of the value of my 911 since I bought it - which was bought second hand! But I knew that was going to happen when I bought it - and to be fair I think that the OP knew this too, just maybe not so quickly....
The only difference here is that I wouldn't expect any sympathy when I wake up with a massive hangover after drinking 10 pints the previous night.
OP: What ever you do, try to sell it privately first. Imagine how gutted you're going to be when you next coast by the OPC and see it on their forecourt for £10k more than they gave you for it.... :thumbs:
Tinker said:T8996C4 said:
Now that's a good idea.
Just make sure the dealer is a sound one.
I had a poor SOR experience a few years ago, although I did get my money in the end.
Just remember the current climate and dealers like Saffron/Verdi/Hollingsworth going tits up, let alone OPC Norwich closing down!
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