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rogttr
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Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 268
Location: West Kent


PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:44 pm    Post subject: Rear seat belts/boosters/the law. Reply with quote

My daughter's only 8 years old and 1m 25cm tall. So the law says until she is 12 years or 1m 35cm she must use a booster seat.
She sits currently on a halfords booster which is not particularly tall. see here.
Her head touches the glass in the rear of my coupe.

So what should I do. I can't find any exemptions to suit.

I would like to email the question to someone official to get an official response/(exemption?) but who? The DVLA?

Also without the booster I can't do up her seat belt tightly as there is a button/stud in the belt (to hold the tongue in place when the belt is not in use) that prevents cinching the belt tight to her skinny waist. I wonder if this (pictured) belt anchor is the extension one of which I have read and I need to get a normal one?
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AAT993
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Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 468
Location: Surrey

1996 Porsche 993 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tricky question.

I suspect these 993's are now not compatible with current "health & safety" regs. I can't find a new childrens seat that will fit the 993 for my 1.5 year old.

Your rear belts look standard to me.
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spongebob squarepants
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 6745
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rog
There are no exemptions, other than listed. The one you could use is Short distance for reason of unexpected necessity.
Ie make something up, however any copper with half a brain is going to see the use of a booster in the rear of a 993 for an average 8 year old is frankly dangerous.
Only other option is cutting half the base of the booster you have, I did that when I had mine, didn't improve the position of belt mind.
Or feed her shredded wheat Question
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sday12
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Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 496
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask this guy, he is very knowledgeable:

http://pistonheads.co.uk/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=963637&mid=0&i=0&nmt=Child+Seat+Advice&mid=0
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orangecurry
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9612
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once my boys head got close to the glass, the booster was removed. He is now 9 and has been in the back without a booster for around two years.

The 993 without a booster is a perfect fit for him, so I'd rather argue the toss than have his neck bent.

End of.
 
  
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Richyd
Watkins Glen


Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 2219
Location: Sunny Tunny Wells


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My kids, 4 and 6 yrs old, sit in the back without bolsters. The buckets are so deep and snug they are absolutely fine and secure, they ain't going no-where. Guess I might be breaking the law though Question

Sitting them on bolsters to the point where their heads could reach the glass is bonkers - don't care what the law says, no-way would I let my kids sit that high...
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orangecurry
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My six-year-old sits on a booster - so that his neck is correctly above the seatbelt top-fixing point.

It's all common sense. I like to think most people would agree, even traffic cops Grin
 
  
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Red993C4
Magny-Cours


Joined: 09 Dec 2010
Posts: 2723
Location: S. Wales


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Rear seat belts/boosters/the law. Reply with quote

rogttr wrote:

I would like to email the question to someone official to get an official response/(exemption?) but who? The DVLA?



If you do want to follow up on getting an "official" opinion on this, I think your query would be better addressed to VOSA than the DVLA:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/
 
  
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orangecurry
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Rear seat belts/boosters/the law. Reply with quote

Red993C4 wrote:
rogttr wrote:

I would like to email the question to someone official to get an official response/(exemption?) but who? The DVLA?



If you do want to follow up on getting an "official" opinion on this, I think your query would be better addressed to VOSA than the DVLA:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/


If you ask and get a reply, if VOSA computer says 'no', you have shot yourself in the foot. Put your child in the safest position, and IF you get stopped, and have to get a ruling, THEN ask; not before.
 
  
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spongebob squarepants
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 6745
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To repeat, you cant change the relevant law to suit your car or child!

Its irrelevant as far as im aware (STBC) a traffic officer isnt allowed to measure your children anyway! And wouldnt when they see the belt correctly fitted as it would be in rear of 993 with a 125cm child.

You would only need to say if it became an issue 'had to rush round to my sisters house for an emergency, my wife had the booster seats and i couldnt leave my children at home etc etc. ' or the like anyway - law satisfied.
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Blue Eyez
Nürburgring


Joined: 02 May 2010
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Location: South coast


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Rear seat belts/boosters/the law. Reply with quote

rogttr wrote:
My daughter's only 8 years old and 1m 25cm tall. So the law says until she is 12 years or 1m 35cm she must use a booster seat


Thats not quite right. The rest of the explanation is that "because that is safer than using an adult only seat belt"

So in order of safety, the child seat first, then the booster then the adult only seat belt, she is safer for now in the childs seat.

Children younger than 12 or under 135 centimetres tall

Adult seat belts aren't designed for children because children are proportioned differently and their bones are still developing. So until your child is old or tall enough to use an adult seat belt alone, they must use a child's car seat. Off course this call all be wrong depending on her weight.

As she is under 135cm she should still be in a child seat not a booster seat, and hopefully the base of the childs seat is thinner than the booster it will lower her enough to keep a gap betwean her and the glass, It also solves the problem with it not being tight enough. Hope that helps Thumb
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spongebob squarepants
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear seat belts/boosters/the law. Reply with quote

Blue Eyez wrote:
rogttr wrote:
My daughter's only 8 years old and 1m 25cm tall. So the law says until she is 12 years or 1m 35cm she must use a booster seat


Thats not quite right. The rest of the explanation is that "because that is safer than using an adult only seat belt"

So in order of safety, the child seat first, then the booster then the adult only seat belt, she is safer for now in the childs seat.

Children younger than 12 or under 135 centimetres tall

Adult seat belts aren't designed for children because children are proportioned differently and their bones are still developing. So until your child is old or tall enough to use an adult seat belt alone, they must use a child's car seat. Off course this call all be wrong depending on her weight.

As she is under 135cm she should still be in a child seat not a booster seat, and hopefully the base of the childs seat is thinner than the booster it will lower her enough to keep a gap betwean her and the glass, It also solves the problem with it not being tight enough. Hope that helps Thumb


?????? The classification below is from the 2006 amended regulations?

The term "Child restraints" is the collective term in the seat belt wearing legislation for baby seats, child seats, booster seats and booster cushions.

• Group 0 and Group 0+. These are baby seats - rear-facing and for children up to 10kg and up to 13kg respectively (approx age birth to 9-12 months);
• Group I. Child seats - forward facing and for children 9kg to 18kg (approx 9 months to 4 years);
Group II. Booster seats - for children from 15kg to 25kg (approx 4 to 6 years), or 15kg up to 36 kg);
Group III. Booster cushions - for children from 22kg and up to 36kg (from approx 6 years).

If you could find a seat belt adjuster for a 993 meeting UN ECE Regulation 44.03 type-approval, this would negate the requiremnt for as booster seat.
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991 C2S PDK - X51 430 Powerkit, Dynamic engine mounts, Carbon GT2 folding buckets, PCCB, PDCC, PSE, Carrera S alloys, Sports design bodykit with ducktail and Alcantara steering wheel. If Carling did a 991S...
“Herman yellow, the last of the naturally aspirated”

 
  
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Blue Eyez
Nürburgring


Joined: 02 May 2010
Posts: 443
Location: South coast


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I
Quote:
f you could find a seat belt adjuster for a 993 meeting UN ECE Regulation 44.03 type-approval, this would negate the requiremnt for as booster seat.

Spongebob, where is that written please?
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spongebob squarepants
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is from the wearing of seatbelts regulations Last part before exemptions.

Who needs to wear seatbelts?

There are new regulations governing the wearing of seatbelts in cars, vans and goods vehicles, which will apply from 18 September 2006. The changes relate specifically to children and how they are secured in your vehicle.
From 18 September 2006 in cars, vans and goods vehicles

• Group 0 and Group 0+. These are baby seats - rear-facing and for children up to 10kg and up to 13kg respectively (approx age birth to 9-12 months);
• Group I. Child seats - forward facing and for children 9kg to 18kg (approx 9 months to 4 years);
• Group II. Booster seats - for children from 15kg to 25kg (approx 4 to 6 years), or 15kg up to 36 kg);
• Group III. Booster cushions - for children from 22kg and up to 36kg (from approx 6 years).

Seat belt adjusters are comfort devices and not safety devices (check what the manufacturer says about them and their intended use). Only if an adjuster is labelled that it has been approved (and therefore tested) to the UN ECE Regulation 44.03 type-approval standard can it used instead of a type-approved child seat/booster.
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991 C2S PDK - X51 430 Powerkit, Dynamic engine mounts, Carbon GT2 folding buckets, PCCB, PDCC, PSE, Carrera S alloys, Sports design bodykit with ducktail and Alcantara steering wheel. If Carling did a 991S...
“Herman yellow, the last of the naturally aspirated”

 
  
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Blue Eyez
Nürburgring


Joined: 02 May 2010
Posts: 443
Location: South coast


PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spongebob squarepants wrote:
This is from the wearing of seatbelts regulations Last part before exemptions.

Who needs to wear seatbelts?

There are new regulations governing the wearing of seatbelts in cars, vans and goods vehicles, which will apply from 18 September 2006. The changes relate specifically to children and how they are secured in your vehicle.
From 18 September 2006 in cars, vans and goods vehicles

• Group 0 and Group 0+. These are baby seats - rear-facing and for children up to 10kg and up to 13kg respectively (approx age birth to 9-12 months);
• Group I. Child seats - forward facing and for children 9kg to 18kg (approx 9 months to 4 years);
• Group II. Booster seats - for children from 15kg to 25kg (approx 4 to 6 years), or 15kg up to 36 kg);
• Group III. Booster cushions - for children from 22kg and up to 36kg (from approx 6 years).

Seat belt adjusters are comfort devices and not safety devices (check what the manufacturer says about them and their intended use). Only if an adjuster is labelled that it has been approved (and therefore tested) to the UN ECE Regulation 44.03 type-approval standard can it used instead of a type-approved child seat/booster.


THIS DOES NOT APPLY

She has to be in a booster/seat frustrated
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