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What REALLY breaks your IMS & contributes to bearing str

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Rimmer said:
Hmm so who's advice would I take.

1/ Baz who repairs 911's day in and day out and who has invested vast sums of cash in solving engine problems.

2/ GT4 a keyboard mechanic? IMO.

No contest as far as I can see

But apparently not researching the effect of OIL GRADE on IMS STRESSES.
 
anotherGT2 said:
In all fairness from what I've read the issue seems to have been a bit confused. I read GT4s original post as an observation of the effect of oil grade and general car usage rather than a criticism of any particular part of the engine.

WOW!

Thank goodness, someone who actually reads before writing.

If only everyone actually read what someone else wrote, rather than just imagined what all those letters mean, before getting on their soapbox with a response of hyperbole and bile, the forums would be a lot saner place.
 
If it makes any difference, I'm not burning this just yet:

iharthartech_194.jpg
 
Hi there


OK can I ask a simple question and get a relatively simple answer please.


Both of my questions are into relation of preventing the possible risk of an IMS failure and scored bores in my car. I have a 997.1 C2S and the engine has 33,000 miles and there is no visible oil leaks.

My questions are:-

1. What oil grade is best for my engine, taking into account the above, 0W-40, 5W-40, 10W-40 or something else?
2. Is the cooler thermostat a worthwhile addition?



I can see GT4's point on a thinner oil when cold will help lubricate things quicker from cold, but at the same time the thinner oil from cold could put more wear on the IMS bearing or thats at least my logical way of looking at it, can I have your feedback on this and why a 5W-40 or 10W-40 may be better for the IMS bearing than say a 0W-40.

Is the thermostat a proven must have, yes or no? Any downfalls to having it?
 
GT4 said:
If only everyone actually read what someone else wrote, rather than just imagined what all those letters mean, before getting on their soapbox with a response of hyperbole and bile, the forums would be a lot saner place.

True, but the forum would also be less interesting :)

MC
 
Gibbo205 said:
Hi there


OK can I ask a simple question and get a relatively simple answer please.


Both of my questions are into relation of preventing the possible risk of an IMS failure and scored bores in my car. I have a 997.1 C2S and the engine has 33,000 miles and there is no visible oil leaks.

My questions are:-

1. What oil grade is best for my engine, taking into account the above, 0W-40, 5W-40, 10W-40 or something else?
2. Is the cooler thermostat a worthwhile addition?



I can see GT4's point on a thinner oil when cold will help lubricate things quicker from cold, but at the same time the thinner oil from cold could put more wear on the IMS bearing or thats at least my logical way of looking at it, can I have your feedback on this and why a 5W-40 or 10W-40 may be better for the IMS bearing than say a 0W-40.

Is the thermostat a proven must have, yes or no? Any downfalls to having it?

+1
 
Gibbo205 said:
My questions are:-

1. What oil grade is best for my engine, taking into account the above, 0W-40, 5W-40, 10W-40 or something else?
2. Is the cooler thermostat a worthwhile addition?

I can see GT4's point on a thinner oil when cold will help lubricate things quicker from cold, but at the same time the thinner oil from cold could put more wear on the IMS bearing or thats at least my logical way of looking at it, can I have your feedback on this and why a 5W-40 or 10W-40 may be better for the IMS bearing than say a 0W-40.

Is the thermostat a proven must have, yes or no? Any downfalls to having it?

1) 0w40, its thin and quick (when cold), everything else is the same. The IMS bearing is a red-herring, the bearing is intentionally sealed, and if it still is, then the oil grade is irrelveant.

If it isn't, I'd want the thinnest oil with the best chance to penetrate, wash and re-lubricate (after all, pulling the seal and fully opening it is the only true way of sorting it using the original ballraces), so do the next best thing and use the most penetrative oil knoww to man (that's sort of a joke), even Porsche can't keep 0w40 in their pants.

2) Oh yes, forget the combination of bad placement and EU based emissions mandates, drop the temp and get better performance/power AND better reliability. No downsides.

Just as an aside, that first question (in oil grade terms) was EXACTLY what this post was about. Not bearings.

If they are still as Porsche intended, and most should be (certainly they will be early in their lives), then oil grade will make not a jot of difference.

They are isolated from the rest of the engine/sump - ie there is NO intentionally ongoing lubrication to the bearings (for good or bad). They are supposed to be sealed for life.
 
The title of the posting is "what really breaks your IMS"

The only thing that we have ever found that does is the bearing failure caused by the inclusion of a seal.

The title is not about oil - that has been included as an exp-lanation of the reasons for the failures - but we have no IMS failures after removing the seal - whatever oil is in use.

In view of this - are we to ignore lengthy technical issues stating there are all sorts of other reasons for the failures of an IMS - or simply report that there is one explanation and proven solution? - what would you do?

Baz
 
bazhart said:
The title of the posting is "what really breaks your IMS"

The only thing that we have ever found that does is the bearing failure caused by the inclusion of a seal.

The title is not about oil - that has been included as an exp-lanation of the reasons for the failures - but we have no IMS failures after removing the seal - whatever oil is in use.

In view of this - are we to ignore lengthy technical issues stating there are all sorts of other reasons for the failures of an IMS - or simply report that there is one explanation and proven solution? - what would you do?

Baz

I tell you what, why not read my first post rather than reply to what you think the title means when viewed through bearing-tinted lenses.

Irrespective of the success of any bearing cures, do you have any views on the causes (and partial oil grade mitigation) as discussed on post one?

Are you saying all the hydraulic systems listed are agnostic to oil grade?

Hydraulic tappets (for valve control from the cams)
Variocam (all models - eg 996 3.4/3.6) hydraulic chain tensioners (for valve timing control, must be in equilibrium to balance IMS)
VariocamPlus (later models - eg 996 3.6) hydraulic cam lobe actuation (for valve range control)
 
The person that can tell the difference between good and bad advice doesn't need advice - I, on the other hand, require lots. :dont know:

Isn't the answer for us laymen to simply follow what Porsche themselves tell us to do? Any engine is a collaboration of moving parts (some big, some small) that interact to perform the whole function, who can say what seemingly small change in one area can do in another? That is the stuff for experts.

Surely following what Porsche themselves suggest is the path of least resistance for us less knowledgeable souls? Whereas the other's that understand the engineering fully can tailor their car care accordingly.

There must have been plenty of knackered Porker's about pre-Internet, or was there? When this level and ease of information was unobtainable, people must have followed the direction of Porsche themselves and been OK in doing so, given that 2/3'rds of Porkers ever made are still alive and kicking.

It's often very easy, reading forums like this (which is great btw) to start to over-engineer each and every element, instead of just getting in, warming her up, and then enjoying it.
 
:thumb:

... just make sure you follow the manual and keep topped up with 0w40 :wink:
 
bazhart said:
Yes it is getting out of hand and I also must apologise for mistakenly posting a response on the wrong web site (in my defence just rushing to answer things while very very busy all the time at work - think I did that at home after work - my mistake - sorry.

Baz

Thank you for you apology, and thank you for the apology on PH too.

I don't have a PH account (although I read the Porsche and Ferrari sections avidly, to be honest PH is all a bit too angry for me).

So this will have to be your acknowledgement for both here.
 
GT4 said:
bazhart said:
Yes it is getting out of hand and I also must apologise for mistakenly posting a response on the wrong web site (in my defence just rushing to answer things while very very busy all the time at work - think I did that at home after work - my mistake - sorry.

Baz

Thank you for you apology, and thank you for the apology on PH too.

I don't have a PH account (although I read the Porsche and Ferrari sections avidly, to be honest PH is all a bit too angry for me).

So this will have to be your acknowledgement for both here.

Lets hope BAZ never slings/shoehorns a 944 engine into the back of a 911.....by mistake :wink:

hmmmm maybe not a bad idea(no IMS failure worries) :?:
 
Hi there

GT4 thanks for those answers, I shall stick with Mobil1 0W-40 then but I shall keep changing every 5000 miles. :)


Some questions for Baz / Hartech.

1. Do you supply the lower temp thermostat, how much for the part please and how much for you to supply and fit?
2. Out of curiosity how much would you charge to change the IMS/Seal to your part that does not fail?
 
What is the logic behind fresh oil every 5k miles? Agreed that every 20k miles as per the service schedule seems too long, but why not every 10k miles? Why simply not follow Porsche's recommendation of 20k?

Does this interim oil change also include replacing the Oil filter or is emptying the oil and replacing with fresh oil all that is required? Also, is this something you all typically do yourselves, or is it something you get done for you.
 
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