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tmilligan
Barcelona


Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 1404
Location: London / Gloucestershire / Isle of Wight


PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh how the winter repair list grows....... Rolling Eyes
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987.1 2.7; 356 Speedster, Golf GT TDi DSG
Previously: 993 4S, 993 C2, 944 S2

 
  
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Zuffenhausen :O)
Sepang


Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 2848
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Good grief thats ugly, I shall be into my car soon then. nooo
Thanks for posting Lee.
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now the panic is over - well rather we all accept the inevitable we can get on with fixing it.

I stuck my finger in the hole and all the surfaces I could get to were smooth so this has clearly rusted from the outside, caused by the bumper mount and it's close proximity to the chassis.

I will simply cut out the infected metal and weld a plate over the hole. I'll repair the bumper support and compensate for the repair plate thickness and put it all back together. I'll have access holes somewhere in the plate to wax it up once it's welded in place. The problem is always that the internal welded area is completely exposed metal so the best you can do is spray the cavity with wax. I'll paint the outside area with por-15, then maybe stone-chip it and wax it before bolting the bumper support back on.

And yes I'll do it all myself as I have restored many cars so really this is a trivial repair. Unfortunately we will probably all need to check this area and it will probably need work. As indicated though this seems to be a specific problem area caused be poor design - so much so that I think this should have been raised as a recall because it potentially affects chassis structure and has clearly been eating away from an early age.

Thanks for the kind words btw, I guess my OCD got turned on with this subject and I got bored within a few days of finishing my covers job Smile

Do you know what "you man" modifies to reduce the likelihood of rust here again ? I imagined standing the plate off the chassis with a spacer ? although I don't know if that might cause more water and muck to get lodged there.

Lee
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ballcock
Sepang


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2997
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I could see of previous pics Lee , he removed the bracket ,cut out the rust from the chassis , welded in a piece , ground down the excess weld , then primed the area , put on a new bracket (at £65 a side from OPC , not including shipping!) , and finally stone guarded the whole area.. Is this enough to do the trick?

I'm popping back over again tomorrow as he's on the way home from work if you'd any thoughts....
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5062


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So looking at OC's pic I can't see the plate at all? Does this mean (and I seriously hope it does) later cars don't have it? Question
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ballcock wrote:
From what I could see of previous pics Lee , he removed the bracket ,cut out the rust from the chassis , welded in a piece , ground down the excess weld , then primed the area , put on a new bracket (at £65 a side from OPC , not including shipping!) , and finally stone guarded the whole area.. Is this enough to do the trick?

I'm popping back over again tomorrow as he's on the way home from work if you'd any thoughts....


It's all you can do to be honest and it will probably last long enough for you not to be worried. You won't have the car next time it rusts through Smile

The only issue I would raise is how the inside of the plate and weld is protected. You can spray the plate with weld through primer to at least coat it in something - he will know that that though.

Having said that and looking at more picture of Graham's speedster it looks like you can see down the chassis leg if you remove the main bumper bar. In which case this is what I'll do to get some paint and wax on the inside of the repair.



Lee
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dommorton wrote:
So looking at OC's pic I can't see the plate at all? Does this mean (and I seriously hope it does) later cars don't have it? Question


You can't see the plate until you remove the heat shield and it's such a close fit you might believe it's not there. That's on my car anyway.

Stop worrying about it - it's really not the end of the world Cigar

Lee
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5062


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously this will give me sleepless nights!

Don't get me wrong I owned a Beetle so I'm well heeled in welding up rot. I just didn't expect to be doing it on this car frustrated
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dommorton wrote:
Seriously this will give me sleepless nights!

Don't get me wrong I owned a Beetle so I'm well heeled in welding up rot. I just didn't expect to be doing it on this car frustrated


Buy a DeLorean Wink
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5062


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuck my head under there just now and can't see anything without at least removing the arch liner.

Not sure I want to investigate further TBH nooo
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dommorton wrote:
Stuck my head under there just now and can't see anything without at least removing the arch liner.

Not sure I want to investigate further TBH nooo


I can see you need some therapy. Well I think we all need to check this area out - leaving it will only let it get worse, but it's more than pulling the arch liner I'm afraid.

You have a car that's worth this little repair if it's needed. Put it on your winter list.

Lee
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ballcock
Sepang


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2997
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dom , Lee et al!
I'm sure I've mentioned this but the real problem is that Porsche didn't seal the top of the bracket and the chassis leg. Shoite and umscah got in behind the support and started the rot over time. It doesn't help that the support by it's nature moves and flexes with the rear quarters / pu.
The solution is , once treated , the new support must be sealed from the top to avoid this happening again.
Dom , get in there and see if it needs doing , cross it off the list!!
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ballcock wrote:
Dom , Lee et al!
I'm sure I've mentioned this but the real problem is that Porsche didn't seal the top of the bracket and the chassis leg. Shoite and umscah got in behind the support and started the rot over time. It doesn't help that the support by it's nature moves and flexes with the rear quarters / pu.
The solution is , once treated , the new support must be sealed from the top to avoid this happening again.
Dom , get in there and see if it needs doing , cross it off the list!!


Agreed.

Lee
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5062


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure my OCD won't let this one lie and I'll be compelled to pull it apart at some stage.
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stage 2.

I pulled the passenger side off and it was all perfect on that side. I had suspected that the car had seen some action on that rear qtr anyway and it clearly been refinished. I presume the car had been hit albeit very mildly on the passenger bumper from the side which might have bent the bumper support panel and perhaps affected the chassis metal a little - clearly no big repair but something has happened. The underside of the rear wing and bumper support mounting area which re-stone-chipped indicating where the repair was. I cannot actually see any evidence of a repair and I know what I'm looking for so it must have been done well.

With the rear pu and then bumper and irons removed you get reasonable access to the back of the rusty area. On the passenger side this showed signs of rust at the lower seam - a sure sign of a repair - I'll just fill the cavity full of wax and it should be ok. On the rusty drivers side the lower seam and interior of the box section was otherwise perfect indicating no repair ever.

Thus with a panel welded on I will easily be able to protect the welded area from the back. To get all this stuff off to this stage took about an hour today and now I'm ready to fix the rusty side. At least I don't need to fix the drivers side thumbsup

Needless to say that shiny bolts will be going back everywhere with plenty of grease.

Enjoy the photos Smile
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TheCock
Kyalami


Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 1943
Location: Poole

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy sh**********t......

That last photo is not something I'll be attempting....it was bad enough reading his thread....now cars are in pieces in garages. Heeeeeeeeeelp.
 
  
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheCock wrote:
Holy sh**********t......

That last photo is not something I'll be attempting....it was bad enough reading his thread....now cars are in pieces in garages. Heeeeeeeeeelp.


Don't panic, I tend to go over board when I do a job so I've taken stuff off that didn't need to come off so I can grease up fasteners and have a general look around. You don't have to undo that many bolts to get to this view and it's all just sheet metal and plastic (apart from the silencers)

Lee
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5062


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blimey good work tearing in to it so vigourously.

Those inner chassis legs are crying out for some wax aren't they.

I think we all need to consider administering a good dose in all such areas to preserve these old ladies.

Deffo adding an arse end tear down to the winter list. I can change the plug leads at the same time. Still really hope I don't discover the rot.
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5062


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheCock wrote:
Holy sh**********t......

That last photo is not something I'll be attempting....it was bad enough reading his thread....now cars are in pieces in garages. Heeeeeeeeeelp.


Haha I did warn you not to look Surprised
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dommorton wrote:
TheCock wrote:
Holy sh**********t......

That last photo is not something I'll be attempting....it was bad enough reading his thread....now cars are in pieces in garages. Heeeeeeeeeelp.


Haha I did warn you not to look Surprised


Of course I know now that mine is effectively fixed.

Anyone local (or not) is welcome to come over to see how the job is going Smile

Lee
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