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Oil consumption

AITU said:
Hi all, been following the forum for a few months now. Thanks for all the info, very useful.

Bought my first 911 late last year here in Dubai. 911 C4S Cab Gen2, Basalt Black.

Its been a great experience so far, with 5k KM trouble free. Last week the engine oil level warning light came on. Took it to the dealer workshop and they added 2l of Mobil 1 and told me to expect to add 1l every couple of thousand KM's. This level of consumption surprised me as the dealer salesman didn't seem to realise this would need to be done to such an extent.

A couple of days ago I was speaking to a friend here who told me the Gen 2 engines have been designed to consume oil and that the oil will never need to be changed in the car.

Not sure of the validity of this, however another reason mentioned by the workshop for the high oil consumption is because the fuel in the UAE is of very poor quality (3rd worst in the world by country). This is another reason for service intervals every 10K KM.
Click to expand...

Your dealer is a clown as well. Bad fuel does not cause the engine to burn oil. Oil is in the engine to lubricate and cool moving parts. Oil gets sprayed into the cylinder when the piston goes up. Once the piston is at TDC and it goes "bang" the piston comes down and scrapes the oil from the cylinder wall. So you would burn oil if you have bad piston rings or if the piston is worn out. The other way you could burn oil is if the oil comes in from the top - which means faulty seals on the valve guides or whatever design the engine has.
 
theogeor said:
AITU said:
Hi all, been following the forum for a few months now. Thanks for all the info, very useful.

Bought my first 911 late last year here in Dubai. 911 C4S Cab Gen2, Basalt Black.

Its been a great experience so far, with 5k KM trouble free. Last week the engine oil level warning light came on. Took it to the dealer workshop and they added 2l of Mobil 1 and told me to expect to add 1l every couple of thousand KM's. This level of consumption surprised me as the dealer salesman didn't seem to realise this would need to be done to such an extent.

A couple of days ago I was speaking to a friend here who told me the Gen 2 engines have been designed to consume oil and that the oil will never need to be changed in the car.

Not sure of the validity of this, however another reason mentioned by the workshop for the high oil consumption is because the fuel in the UAE is of very poor quality (3rd worst in the world by country). This is another reason for service intervals every 10K KM.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum :welcome:

As for the oil issue 2l for 5K KM (3K miles) is too too much in my opinion. As for the reason they gave you I did not know that the new engine is a two stroke one. (The only engines I know that is normal to burn oil)
The bad fuel can cause all sort of problems and I am not aware if the new engines are still using Nikasil. HAve the car checked properly as per Big Bob's advice


Theo
Click to expand...

You might want to explain why a 2-stroke engine burns oil. :) A 2-stroke engine burns oil because the oil is added/mixed with the fuel. This mixture lubricates the cylinder and crankshaft as well as creating the bang to move you forward. Note the difference to 4-stroke.
 
mm450exc said:
You might want to explain why a 2-stroke engine burns oil. :) A 2-stroke engine burns oil because the oil is added/mixed with the fuel. This mixture lubricates the cylinder and crankshaft as well as creating the bang to move you forward. Note the difference to 4-stroke.
Click to expand...

I know how a two stroke engine works :D and thanks for clarifying it for the others who do not know.
The main point here no modern 4 stroke engine burns oil by design....only two strokes are design (mixing fuel with oil) to do that.

Theo :)
 
Absolutely agree with you Theo! If your engine burns oil then you probably have a problem.
 
Thank god we got to the bottom of that one, :? so lets clarify, dont' put oil in the petrol tank. or do you? :floor: move on.
 
sidlo said:
Thank god we got to the bottom of that one, :? so lets clarify, dont' put oil in the petrol tank. or do you? :floor: move on.
Click to expand...

There is nothing to stop you from putting oil or diesel in your petrol tank!!!!!!!!!!!! :floor:

But if you do that and you do not understand the reason why not then you do not deserve to have a Porke....

Theo
 
Touche :thumb:
 
Thanks for all your responses (both comical and factual :) )

I think the main point here is the difference between a car "burning oil" and a car "using oil". Also need to bear in mind that mine is brand new and also operating on a daily basis in external temperatures around 45C. I didn't check the oil level when it was brand new so it may not have been full at new.

Everything you all have stated above is correct in terms of the engine burning oil. These latest engines operate at higher temperatures and compression ratios which help to achieve the lower exhaust emissions and to gain the additional power from the same size engines.

These benefits come with the side effect of "using" oil, due to the increased friction and heat. As a result, the oil is evaporating or being broken down while doing its job. In other words, the oil is being used. It is not going out the tail pipe as it does when it is burned.

Anyway, I'll monitor the oil usage over the next 5K and see if it is the same. :thumb:
 
AITU

I understand the logic behind what you are saying but few points on that.
1) Look at the engine as a close system The oil circulation is happening within such a close system and you expect with high temperatures the viscosity and general oil characteristics to change over time and that will result in the reduction of the overall volume (insignificant from my experience) but also because of that more oil will escape through the engine (pistons etc). Basically the oil has to go somewhere....
As your car is new then I will wait until the engine is settled down. Its common for engines to burn oil at the beginning. Just keep an eye on it...

And above all... ENJOY the CAR.....


Theo
 
From the 911 Carrera driver's manual for my Gen2 car, page 250:

" Engine Oil Consumption - up to 1.5 litres per 1000km"


 I think talk of engine failures and visits to the OPC might be a bit of an over reaction IMHO.
 
Good point "goodethernet", and that data certainly confirms an earlier post saying Gen 2 Engines will "use" more oil.
I dont think I have said that the vehicle under consideration has a definite major problem, but it is something if you have a Gen 1 Standard 997 you need to bear in mind.
Better safe than sorry.
Best Regards Big Bob :bye:
 
One more note on this.
It is and it has been as long as I remember a standard practice from car manufacturers to quote oil consumption.
I checked few and even my wifes Ibiza shows up to 1.0l per 1000Km. By the way the Gen1 also shows up to 1.5l per 1000Km so you expect no differences between Gen1 & Gen2
I do not want to be alarmist here but for me I expect a modern engine after the initial running to need almost no oil at min 5000km. (In the past I have done 10K miles/16K KM without any topup)
One thing that can make massive differences in the oil consumption is how you treat your car the first 10minutes when you start it (the 10minute rule is mine based on experience)
my simple rules are
a) Never rev and go more than 3.5-4K revs after a start
b) Look at the temperature (both water & oil if available; oil warms up about 4-5 min after water reach normal temp)
c) Even if the engine is warm allow 30 secs for the oil to circulate before you step on it...

If interested I can give you both the scientific and practical reasons behind that :)


Theo
 
theogeor said:
One thing that can make massive differences in the oil consumption is how you treat your car the first 10minutes when you start it (the 10minute rule is mine based on experience)
my simple rules are
a) Never rev and go more than 3.5-4K revs after a start
b) Look at the temperature (both water & oil if available; oil warms up about 4-5 min after water reach normal temp)
c) Even if the engine is warm allow 30 secs for the oil to circulate before you step on it...

If interested I can give you both the scientific and practical reasons behind that :)


Theo
Click to expand...

Yep, I pretty much practice those rules too. I start the car in the garage 10 minutes before I need to leave and don't even think about booting it until the oil temp. gauge is up there....

I would expect to have to top up less as the miles increase also...
 
Letting an engine idle for long peroids of time will not help reduce oil consumption. Far better to start and use the engine gently ASAP until it has warmed etc.
Regards Big Bob
 
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