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Tiny Tim
Newbie


Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 2



PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking of buying a 997 C2S. Whats are the risks that the engine will fail through the nikasil bore treatment failing on No 6. I see from this thread there are about 40 Generation 1 Engines that have failed becuse of this fault.
Why is it happening, are Porsche doing anything, or should I go for a Generation 2 car?
Tiny Tim
 
  
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Big Bob
Barcelona


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 1348
Location: Southampton


PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tiny Tim
There are some on this Forum who are concerned about this state of affairs, others less so. The objective of this Thread was to try and lay the truth to rest, unfortunately many have poo pooed the study.
Clearly you need to maintain the Porsche Extended Warranty if you buy a Generation 1 Car, and at present because the cause of the failures are unknown having a replacement engine under warranty is no sure fired guarantee the engine will not fail again!
So tread carefully and ensure you have a Porsche Extended Warranty.
Regards Big Bob bye
 
  
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theogeor
Albert Park


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 1502
Location: Northwood Hills

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiny Tim wrote:
I'm thinking of buying a 997 C2S. Whats are the risks that the engine will fail through the nikasil bore treatment failing on No 6. I see from this thread there are about 40 Generation 1 Engines that have failed becuse of this fault.
Why is it happening, are Porsche doing anything, or should I go for a Generation 2 car?
Tiny Tim


Hi Tim.. The risk is a bit of an unknown quantity as nobody has enough info to understand if this is a real problem and the extend of it. We know that a number of people had failures but we are no more wiser than before on the reasons. I do have a 2 year old 997 and I am concern that something might fail and every time I hear a noise (or imagine a noise) I get paranoid. It will be nice somehow to have Porsche telling us a bit more.
As for the rest of the car is GREAT but I can understand your concerns.

Theo
_________________
911 997 C2 56 Reg
B180 SE 14 Reg (family car)
406 Coupe (Now in Cyprus as a holiday car)
A160 Blueefficiency Avantgarde 11 Reg (second holiday car in Cyrpus)
 
  
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Tiny Tim
Newbie


Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 2



PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Big Bob and Theogeor for the prompt responses.
I've been doing some research on the Web about Nikasil Cylinder Bore Coatings.
It appears that Porsche first used in on the 917 Race Car, because it enabled them to coat the parent alluminium bore with a durable material, and yet retained the heat transfer properties of alluminium.
It also appears that the early 996 3.4 litre cars suffered problems too.
Do you think its a factor of hi sulphur fuels, which troubled BMW and Jaguar?
Thanks Tiny Tim
 
  
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Big Bob
Barcelona


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 1348
Location: Southampton


PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tiny Tim (Are you actually small - apologise for such a personal question Laughing )
You raise an interesting point. Nikasil Bore Linings were damaged by hi-sulphur fuels that lead to the chemical detachment of the nikasil material from the parent bore material, resulting in loss of compression, oil consumption etc - symptoms 997 owners suffer.
The UK has tried to reduce the levels of sulphur in our fuels, but the final legislation to make this legally enforceable is not likely to become law until 2010 I believe.
The only flaw in blaming hi-sulphur fuels, is why is only bore 6 primarily affected Question
There lies the need for an accurate definition of cause Confused
Big Bob bye
 
  
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rilley911
Newbie


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: carrera 2s engine failure Reply with quote

hi guys

i own a carrera 2s and the engine failed 2 months ago.

the cause seem to be lack of oil although the oil level on the dash seemed

okay, it was a expensive experience. Any way the specialist who rebuilt my stock engine stated that they have seen so many of these lately, in fact he stated only a few days ago that they have another one with the same problem and this one seems to oil related too, so where is the oil going?

is it being burnt? if so should a modern car burns so much oil.

Any way i thinking about supercharging it now.

thanks

m.taylor
 
  
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theogeor
Albert Park


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 1502
Location: Northwood Hills

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: carrera 2s engine failure Reply with quote

rilley911 wrote:
hi guys

i own a carrera 2s and the engine failed 2 months ago.

the cause seem to be lack of oil although the oil level on the dash seemed

okay, it was a expensive experience.
is it being burnt? if so should a modern car burns so much oil.


m.taylor


Interesting one... with no stick to check the oil level the dash is the one to look at. I was checking mine tonight with 2000m after service and oil change and it shows full. How do I know that is full and I will not have a similar problem. What was the dashboard showing when you have the failure ???

Theo
_________________
911 997 C2 56 Reg
B180 SE 14 Reg (family car)
406 Coupe (Now in Cyprus as a holiday car)
A160 Blueefficiency Avantgarde 11 Reg (second holiday car in Cyrpus)
 
  
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apw2007
Zolder


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 5798
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone got an update on this? Dont know
 
  
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ResB
Estoril


Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 3708
Location: North Yorkshire

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the guys on Rennteam has had an engine failure on his 997.1. Warranty has sorted it for him though. IMS bearing failure. I hope he doesn't mind me posting his pics.






















_________________
I see dead pixels.
 
  
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ahmedz
Newbie


Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 27



PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigBob,

Its weird, i was asking myself the question the other night..How can a porsche 997 that has only done 15K have its engine just fail?

I purchased an accident damaged 997 C4S cab, rear quarter panel damage last year. The engine sounded sweet and the car drove absolutely fine so i went ahead and purchased it.

It took me approx 4-5 months to repair the car after putting in a new rear quarter panel, the horse shaped panel that open for the hood to go down, passenger side seatbelt, rear passenger glass and motor and rear bumper.

The car is basalt black and once i polished her top to bottom she looked the business and i couldnt wait to take her out. I drove her through the bucks country lanes with the hood down, thinking what a bargain i got.

Approx half an hour later the car cut off, i tried starting it agian but no joy. i took the car to a porsche specialist who first advised that its the battery and that it drains out to quickly. So i purchased a new battery and started the car up and she started up fine; no problems at all.

Half an hour later, the same issue the car cuts off again and i had to get it towed back home again and then back to the specialists again. Halfway through the day i got the dreaded call......my engine has had it and i need a complete new engine. i went down to see it for myself, the whole sump of the car was covered in black sludge and the inside of the engine was shockingly bad. The car would run until the sludge got warm and circulated through the engine and then when it couldnt handle it no more, the car would shut off.


Anyways to make it short, i ended up paying 5K for a brand new engine and now shes sweet. I cannot believe that after only 15K a porsche engine could go this bad.....I have now have a 2 year warranty from porsche OPC on the new engine and will be picking her up tomorrow.....hopefully.
 
  
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GD
Barcelona


Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1280
Location: Surrey-ite

2008 Porsche 997 Targa

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just having a look through this lot and unless I missed it, I didn't see a single engine failure on a Tip?
 
  
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sidlo
Montreal


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 579
Location: Wakefield


PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My C2S is a tip and this had an engine failure on no6 cylinder last February. New engine fitted by Porsche. This was in the early thread.
_________________
Remember, he who pushes luck, pushes pram.
997 C2S now sadly gone......for now
 
  
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Big Bob
Barcelona


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 1348
Location: Southampton


PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Ahmedz
From what you describe it almost sounds that the Engine got water inside it, perhaps from being exposed to rain water after the accident. Or it was in deep water at some point.
It sounds as though the engine was therefore sludged. Clearly the assesment was that the engine was not serviceable, although I suspect it was re builable, but which would be cheaper?
If the car had been in normal use I suspect that it would not have sludged in 15000 miles unless it was continually stop started and only run a couple of miles at a time, so the engine never got warm, but experienced maximum internal condensation.
Because the sludge sits at the bottom of the sump, you cant see it and the 997 Dash Indicator will only tell you that the oil level is OK not the quality of the oil or whatever.
The area of concern that is essentially the debate on this thread, is the tendency for bore number 6 to fail through erosion of the nikasil liner on that bore.
Thanks and Regard Big Bob
 
  
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apw2007
Zolder


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 5798
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friends Boxster engine has just failed at 20k, do they share the same engine as the 997? Dont know
 
  
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GD
Barcelona


Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1280
Location: Surrey-ite

2008 Porsche 997 Targa

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sidlo wrote:
My C2S is a tip and this had an engine failure on no6 cylinder last February. New engine fitted by Porsche. This was in the early thread.


Sorry, yes I did miss that one. Was this the only one?

Is the difference between the 3.6 and 3.8 caused by a longer stroke or thiner liners/wider bore?

Ref: the Boxster question, yes they are similar engines to the M96 engine. Have a look at Hartech website for the specific differences.

Cheers.
 
  
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theogeor
Albert Park


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 1502
Location: Northwood Hills

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apw2007 wrote:
A friends Boxster engine has just failed at 20k, do they share the same engine as the 997? Dont know


Yes they do have the same core M96 engine with some differences in the capacity etc. Most important thing is that the engine orientation is different on the boxter so you might get different heating/circulation issues

Theo
_________________
911 997 C2 56 Reg
B180 SE 14 Reg (family car)
406 Coupe (Now in Cyprus as a holiday car)
A160 Blueefficiency Avantgarde 11 Reg (second holiday car in Cyrpus)
 
  
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ZigZag
Newbie


Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 37



PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:28 pm    Post subject: Blackening Left Exhausts -997 C4S Reply with quote

Read some of this with interest. Does anyone have any insight into this issue. My C4S is sweet.....burns a little oil thats all. I have noticed that the left exhausts are significantly blackenned relative to the right. Should I be worried?

Any views or similar experiences?
 
  
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gadgetJunky72
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 572
Location: NW London


PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

So my engine warning light came on yesterday evening Sad , there was a loss of power, and the car was shuddering a bit as I limped back to Portiacraft, the Indy that I bought the car from only 6 months ago.

It's a late '55 plate with 64K on the clock. I'll let you know what they say the problem is and also if their warranty is worth the paper its written on.

Cheers

Pav
 
  
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Pete Hadfield
Suzuka


Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 1147
Location: 25 miles north of Manchester

2007 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gj72, let's hope it is something simple. It could be.
_________________
Pete,

997 C2S, no longer a 'Ring virgin
 
  
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gadgetJunky72
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 572
Location: NW London


PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gadgetJunky72 wrote:
Hi Folks,

So my engine warning light came on yesterday evening Sad , there was a loss of power, and the car was shuddering a bit as I limped back to Portiacraft, the Indy that I bought the car from only 6 months ago.

It's a late '55 plate with 64K on the clock. I'll let you know what they say the problem is and also if their warranty is worth the paper its written on.

Cheers

Pav


Panic over Very Happy. Portiacraft replaced a coil pack free of charge and it's all happy days again. I've got a 60K service at JZM next week and then a trip to Centre of gravity next month. It's going to feel like a new car.
 
  
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