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apw2007
Zolder


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 5798
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nothing like a good debate Pop Corn
 
  
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wizard993
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 11982


1966 Singer Gazelle

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Whereas attitudes like yours don't do the human race any favours IMO"

Wattie should have a sarge stripe torn off for this remark. I say demote him to corporal as he's been like an unbridled stallion(since buying a RRS) and running a mock on 911UK now that he has no Porsche baggage to worry or care about...unlike us very loyal but (sometimes engined concerned) Porsche owners Laughing Grin

Either that or someone has hijacked his account as i can't imagine "oor wattie" upsetting anyone like this. puh
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wizard993 wrote:
"Whereas attitudes like yours don't do the human race any favours IMO"

Wattie should have a sarge stripe torn off for this remark. I say demote him to corporal as he's been like an unbridled stallion(since buying a RRS) and running a mock on 911UK now that he has no Porsche baggage to worry or care about...unlike us very loyal but (sometimes engined concerned) Porsche owners Laughing Grin

Either that or someone has hijacked his account as i can't imagine "oor wattie" upsetting anyone like this. puh


Sense of humour failure there Embarassed , but I am the least sexist person that I know so I resent the accusation.

My point was that a lot of 996 first owners bought one for its physical attributes (and maybe 'snob' value) rather than to realise a life-long dream, or for the heritage of the brand. Don't know about you guys, but I don't recall seeing the ubiquitous 911 Turbo poster on the bedroom walls of any of my female friends at University, but it was on the walls of many of my male friends Smile
 
  
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bigfish
Silverstone


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 113



PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey...who I am to argue with Wattie.

Ok...engine blows up after 30k miles, Porsche admit could not have been prevented...computer put on engine to confirm car not be abused (I am 2nd owner)...so therefore by all accounts a day in the life of a well engineered engine.....

Somehow I think not
 
  
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David M
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 300
Location: YORK


PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigfish wrote:
David M wrote:
Big Bob wrote:
Hi Baxster
One thing to remember is you only ever hear the problems Judge on expensive cars. All the satisfied people Cool don't write in to say I've had no problem.
So bear that in mind when you make your decision.
Best Regards Big Bob bye


And besides Bob's experience which is the same as mine - most people appreciate that it is an expensive car which could be expensive when it goes wrong and therefore buy a decent warranty!


Intersting view - expensive car & buy a decent warranty

I dont accept that a engine that has only covered 32,000 miles would NEED a warranty to be in place - my view is that it should not need replacing after so few miles...and that Porsche should step up & assist here.


Well that's your choice and you can live with the consequences. Personally I like to buy new cars, drive them like I stole them (even from cold) and have been known to participate in the odd track day or hill climb Very Happy .

I will then sell them and buy my next victim...erm I mean car. What I can tell you is that 32k miles of that abuse is more than I would expect to get out of any engine including a Porsche. I would expect to be laughed at for trying to claim anything from a dealer without a comprehensive warranty and then expect to be challenged.

Do you also expect all your major electrical appliances to be covered for years just because you don't use them Confused

Sorry - I also fail to see how the computer diagnostic can tell that the car has not been abused. Can you elaborate?
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bigfish
Silverstone


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 113



PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope...not on TV's etc because they are not worth it

Nor should the engine go pop on a 997 - engine has "average" speed of 25pmh...

You have you view...I have mine...

but one thing I do know is that it IS worth moaning to Porsche about
 
  
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David M
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 300
Location: YORK


PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigfish wrote:
Nope...not on TV's etc because they are not worth it

Nor should the engine go pop on a 997 - engine has "average" speed of 25pmh...

You have you view...I have mine...

but one thing I do know is that it IS worth moaning to Porsche about


Never said it wasn't worth moaning about and would do the same myself Wink . I just wouldn't start out with the expectation that I was entitled to their support without the appropriate warranty in place and that's where our views differ Thumb .
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be worth reminding folks exactly what a 'warranty' is here: It is a promise to pay the costs of repairing a car that has developed a fault (attributable to manufacturing - not from owner neglect or abuse). So it is merely a financial promise and will have been accounted for at the start of the development process, just the same as the cost of using Lokasil liners instead of Nikasil, or different suppliers of RMS and IMS seals and bearings.

A warranty is NOT a guarantee that the car will not go wrong!

Anyone making that promise about a complex machine with many thousands of moving parts, several computers and a couple of miles of electrical wiring would be a sandwich short of a picnic (and in court on a daily basis for breach of contract!)

The financial equation that a manufacturer has to get right is the relative cost of lost goodwill (and future revenue) against the cost of over-engineering the product. In this department, as the most profitable motor manufacturer in the World (more than 10 years after the launch of the 996), I reckon Porsche got their sums spot-on Thumb
 
  
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David M
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 300
Location: YORK


PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wish I could get a warranty on my Noble for the same price as the Porsche. Who knows when that will fail.....it's just a matter of time Surprised
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Big Bob
Barcelona


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 1348
Location: Southampton


PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apw2007 wrote:
nothing like a good debate Pop Corn


I have to say with 11 pages of posts on this thread it has to be a Mass Debate Floor .
Big Bob bye
 
  
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bigfish
Silverstone


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 113



PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And from some PM's I have received stopped some people buying a 997.....but that is the real shame of this post..
 
  
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David M
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 300
Location: YORK


PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigfish wrote:
And from some PM's I have received stopped some people buying a 997.....but that is the real shame of this post..


I'm sorry but anyone claiming to be put off from buying a 997 because of some internet post was never really going to buy a 997 in the first place no matter what they say (or have some other problem that I am not qualified to comment upon Hand )
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bigfish
Silverstone


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 113



PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are mistaken I think....but again we have different views
 
  
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northeast canuck
Newbie


Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 40



PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with David M completely here. I just don't understand why a manufacturer should pay for a new engine when there is no warranty.

If there is a huge problem experienced by many then there should be a recall. Are there any statistics for 997 engine failures that bear this out? Average speed is meaningless. My Boxster had an average speed of around 26mph and so does my 911. In fact, I think all my cars have an average speed in this range. I would be willing to bet that most cars do (exception: salesmen who live on the motorway). It just means I don't spend my life on the motorway travelling huge distances in it, but this is borne out by the low-ish mileage. But it does NOT mean that I haven't thrashed them from time to time.

Bigfish, you haven't yet said whether or not your car had a warranty supplied by the Indy - usually there is some sort of warranty in place and many of them cover a new engine if needed.

There are a few of us here who would like to know if you have gone back to the Indy with your troubles and if not, why not?
 
  
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bigfish
Silverstone


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 113



PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northeast
Yes...it had a 3 month warranty & happened 3 months 11 days after I got the car (but looking at small print covers upto £5k)

And dealer is paying half.....he has been good
 
  
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David M
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 300
Location: YORK


PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigfish wrote:
Northeast
Yes...it had a 3 month warranty & happened 3 months 11 days after I got the car (but looking at small print covers upto £5k)

And dealer is paying half.....he has been good


Ah....so let's be really honest. You bought outside the franchise dealer network and at substantial discount to official dealer prices that include the standard 12 month full Porsche warranty and all the usual OPC checks. They may have even rejected the car.

You took a gamble (bought cheap with a poor warranty) and got caught out and now expect the franchise that you took a conscious decision to buy outside off to now step in a sort your problem...... Question

Maybe next time I buy something cheap of eBay that subsequently fails I will ask the OEM to sort out as I should expect some goodwill from them Dont know
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adrian996
Hockenheim


Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 668
Location: The Graveyard of Ambition.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigfish.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'd bet that you went out and bought that Porsche with impunity and that the element of "risk" didn't even enter your head. Right or wrong?
Why would you be taking a "gamble"? You were buying one the finest sports cars in the world which had covered just over 30K miles. "Gamble"? I thought that was something you did in casinos and the like? If you bought the car from a guy in a grey mac who was "borrowing" his mates garage for the day, all the shut lines on the car were out, it had little or no service history and had done 150,000 miles then, yes, I would say that would have been taking a "risk".
I'd also bet that you considered the option of buying the car from a "franchise dealer", made a measured decision and thought better of it - maybe after reading other threads on this (or other) Porsche forums. Right or wrong?
I reckon that you've probably done your research and then spent your money on a car that was £5,000 to £7,000 cheaper than the OPC equivalent and thought that you'd be better off spending that money on petrol for it. Can't see a problem there!
And what would have been the difference if you HAD bought from an OPC? IMHO: none.
Let's be clear: OPCs are just garages that happened to have a big Porsche sign outside - they're still just garages with human mechanics (which you can't speak directly to about you're cars service!) Grin

I can't believe that people are banging on about Porsche's "profits" and generally how great they are as a company. The whole car industry is in bits - Porsche included. Sure, they may have announced great profits for the last year but that doesn't mean anything. Their overheads are massive and anyone with their own business will know that this country isn't the best place to have large heated aircraft hanger-like buildings full of £80k sports cars that aren't selling.

My local OPC didn't deliver one single Porsche vehicle on an '09 plate. I'm afraid that isn't going to pay the bills for long. Either that or they're going to have to sell one hell of a lot of those black puffa jackets and snow sleds! Grin

My point is that now of all times, you'd think that Porsche were doing their utmost to maintain good customer relationships. From this thread it doesn't seem as though they are trying to.
 
  
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David M
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 300
Location: YORK


PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I reckon that you've probably done your research and then spent your money on a car that was £5,000 to £7,000 cheaper than the OPC equivalent and thought that you'd be better off spending that money on petrol for it. Can't see a problem there!
And what would have been the difference if you HAD bought from an OPC? IMHO: none.


Bollocks....all cars are sold after being prepared to full OPC standard. There are no standards required outside the OPC network. They also provide a minimum 12 month full Porsche warranty. Why do you think there is such a price differential.....the coffee or reception staff Confused

If Bigfish's car was bought from the OPC network we would not have such a long thread and his problems would have been fully resolved under the offical warranty Rolling Eyes

And you can't see a problem....where's the Stevie Wonder emoticon .... Floor
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adrian996 wrote:
Bigfish.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'd bet that you went out and bought that Porsche with impunity and that the element of "risk" didn't even enter your head. Right or wrong?
Why would you be taking a "gamble"? You were buying one the finest sports cars in the world which had covered just over 30K miles. "Gamble"? I thought that was something you did in casinos and the like? If you bought the car from a guy in a grey mac who was "borrowing" his mates garage for the day, all the shut lines on the car were out, it had little or no service history and had done 150,000 miles then, yes, I would say that would have been taking a "risk".
I'd also bet that you considered the option of buying the car from a "franchise dealer", made a measured decision and thought better of it - maybe after reading other threads on this (or other) Porsche forums. Right or wrong?
I reckon that you've probably done your research and then spent your money on a car that was £5,000 to £7,000 cheaper than the OPC equivalent and thought that you'd be better off spending that money on petrol for it. Can't see a problem there!
And what would have been the difference if you HAD bought from an OPC? IMHO: none.
Let's be clear: OPCs are just garages that happened to have a big Porsche sign outside - they're still just garages with human mechanics (which you can't speak directly to about you're cars service!) Grin

I can't believe that people are banging on about Porsche's "profits" and generally how great they are as a company. The whole car industry is in bits - Porsche included. Sure, they may have announced great profits for the last year but that doesn't mean anything. Their overheads are massive and anyone with their own business will know that this country isn't the best place to have large heated aircraft hanger-like buildings full of £80k sports cars that aren't selling.

My local OPC didn't deliver one single Porsche vehicle on an '09 plate. I'm afraid that isn't going to pay the bills for long. Either that or they're going to have to sell one hell of a lot of those black puffa jackets and snow sleds! Grin

My point is that now of all times, you'd think that Porsche were doing their utmost to maintain good customer relationships. From this thread it doesn't seem as though they are trying to.


And precisely how is paying loads of cash to someone who didn't buy his car from an OPC, and probably wasn't intending to have it serviced there either, going to help Porsche?

So if you were in the market for a new car - would you expect to hand over £100,000 to someone in a portakabin, with the service bays under a railway arch?

I've never read so much tosh in the two years I've been on this forum. wack

There is no such thing as a free lunch... If it's cheaper there is a reason for it and it's not all about overheads... A 3 month warranty is worthless (and is actually a minimum statutory obligation) and enables an independent dealer to do the bare minimum of preparation to ensure the car doesn't fail in that time.... After that, you're on your own pal.
 
  
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adrian996
Hockenheim


Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 668
Location: The Graveyard of Ambition.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David. What is it with you, bud? Are you sha**ing your local dealer principal or what!!?? Wow! I've never seen such passionate defence of a marque!

But - I'm afraid that you've answered your own question there fella! It seems that in most cases the extra £5k to £7K is indeed absorbed by coffee, leather sofas, pretty girls on the desk and the clothing allowance for the dealer principal. And baby oil.

I think you'll find that it's not "bollocks" actually, David. If it is then why did my car come delivered with a plastic garden tie holding on part of the passenger seat; the four wheel geometry hadn't been done and the rears wore themselves out in 1,500 miles - which the OPC then had to pay for - and the radio wouldn't accept any of my CDs - not even my Nick Cave ones. And yes, the car came from an OPC.

So there.
 
  
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