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997...engine..Porsche ... and Annoyed

baxster said:
I have had my name down for an RS5 for the last year and think I will probably go that route,

Let us hope that Dynamic Ride Control is laid to rest, at least a blown engine is not as dangerous as no suspension control.
The RS6 I drove, and paid a deposit on, (because I initially believed the twaddle about it being a damaged alloy wheel! Audi Main Agent) was simply not safe to drive.
I have always wanted a 911 and the return to early styling cues on the 997 made me want one even more.

I refuse to pay the subscription fees required to stay in the club after a not inconsiderable outlay.
993 owners should be smug indeed, as that seems the only route if you want to preserve funds.
 
fake said:
baxster said:
I have had my name down for an RS5 for the last year and think I will probably go that route,

Let us hope that Dynamic Ride Control is laid to rest, at least a blown engine is not as dangerous as no suspension control.
The RS6 I drove, and paid a deposit on, (because I initially believed the twaddle about it being a damaged alloy wheel! Audi Main Agent) was simply not safe to drive.
I have always wanted a 911 and the return to early styling cues on the 997 made me want one even more.

I refuse to pay the subscription fees required to stay in the club after a not inconsiderable outlay.
993 owners should be smug indeed, as that seems the only route if you want to preserve funds.
I doubt it. The DRC problems have been around on the old generation RS6 the B7 RS4 and they still cannot stop them leaking. My old B7 RS4 had them replaced at 10k miles.
Having said that I am still thinking that my 50k is better wrapped up in a brand new rs5 running on drc (if applicable) than a year old 997.
I also lost relatively little money on my RS4.
Yes i think you are right a 993 would be a better route all round.
 
David M said:
Big Bob said:
Hi Baxster
One thing to remember is you only ever hear the problems :judge: on expensive cars. All the satisfied people 8) don't write in to say I've had no problem.
So bear that in mind when you make your decision.
Best Regards Big Bob :bye:

And besides Bob's experience which is the same as mine - most people appreciate that it is an expensive car which could be expensive when it goes wrong and therefore buy a decent warranty!

Intersting view - expensive car & buy a decent warranty

I dont accept that a engine that has only covered 32,000 miles would NEED a warranty to be in place - my view is that it should not need replacing after so few miles...and that Porsche should step up & assist here.
 
bigfish said:
Intersting view - expensive car & buy a decent warranty

I dont accept that a engine that has only covered 32,000 miles would NEED a warranty to be in place - my view is that it should not need replacing after so few miles...and that Porsche should step up & assist here.

On a car that is purchased with the intention of exploiting its full performance potential I think this is perfectly reasonable...

Porsche have no control over how the car has been driven - if you rag it from cold it WILL fail, if you put the wrong oil (or not enough, or too much oil in it) it WILL fail, if you over-rev it on the down-change - it WILL fail, and there are 101 things that could have been done wrong with the same result. So, why should Porsche cough up for user-error?

If you buy a second-hand car, you have to allow for all of the above and it is the risk you take for buying outside the OPC network and not buying a warranty.

I have posted elsewhere about a rebuilt rally car engine that failed after about 10,000 miles and I later discovered it had once been accidentally driven out of the workshop (about 200 metres) without oil. Can you prove that hasn't happened while in the garage for service, or in the hands of a previous owner? :?:

Thought not... :wink:
 
Wattie said:
On a car that is purchased with the intention of exploiting its full performance potential I think this is perfectly reasonable...

Porsche have no control over how the car has been driven - if you rag it from cold it WILL fail, if you put the wrong oil (or not enough, or too much oil in it) it WILL fail, if you over-rev it on the down-change - it WILL fail, and there are 101 things that could have been done wrong with the same result. So, why should Porsche cough up for user-error?

Sorry Wattie, but how can it be deemed reasonable?? Every performance car built to take that performance has a margin of error that allows for these stresses and strains. Over the decades Porsche have built a legendary reputation of durable performance cars - the examples of stresses you have given above haven't just appeared with the introduction of the 996/997, they've been factors that effect all cars for years.

And just as you state that there is no guarantee that a car has been treated in a certain way, there is no guarantee that it has either.

Fact is Porsche have turned their backs on their 'over-engineering' approach as it costs too much, and have in the process oversteered the ship in the wrong direction.

I don't see why as follows of the brand we should be making excuses for Porsche. Engine failures of this magnitude and frequency are simply inexcusable.
 
993C2S said:
Sorry Wattie, but how can it be deemed reasonable?? Every performance car built to take that performance has a margin of error that allows for these stresses and strains. Over the decades Porsche have built a legendary reputation of durable performance cars - the examples of stresses you have given above haven't just appeared with the introduction of the 996/997, they've been factors that effect all cars for years.

And prior to the 996 / 997 were mostly only purchased by enthusiasts who treated them properly and with respect (and a fair degree of fear in many cases)... However, 996 was the first 911 to be bought in large numbers as an alternative to 'ordinary' luxury cars: I was once told by someone at Porsche that nearly 50% of new 996s in the UK were registered to female keepers for example.

993C2S said:
Fact is Porsche have turned their backs on their 'over-engineering' approach as it costs too much, and have in the process oversteered the ship in the wrong direction.

Maybe, but they would have probably gone broke if they hadn't... And why should they look after the 6th, 7th, and 8th owner, who will probably never buy a new car from them, or use an OPC for that matter? To continue 'over-engineering' would have increased the new price significantly, such that they would no longer be competitive (and why should the first owner pay more just to reduce your running costs 10 years or more down the line?)

993C2S said:
I don't see why as follows of the brand we should be making excuses for Porsche.

OK, point taken... I'll get my coat :coat:


(but remember - I did drive a 911 for 8 years and more than 110,000 miles before you start accusing me of not supporting the brand...)
 
....has "oor Wattie" just been appointed as Porsche GB customer services director or something with a remit of reducing warranty/goodwill claims? :grin:

I was starting to think that a Range Rover might be a better option....then the bad dream ended thankfully.
 
"I was once told by someone at Porsche that nearly 50% of new 996s in the UK were registered to female keepers for example."



Hang on a minute! It's not just total sh**e! - It's total sexist sh**e!!!

Mate. To say that you're on thin ice on all fronts here would be like saying Hitler was a bit hasty!

Regardless of your views on women's abilities the fact that you're defending Porsche on this is pretty unforgivable. "If you over-rev it they WILL fail??!!" What on earth are you on about??

Wattie. Porsches are £60K (++++) sports cars. You should be able to red-line them all day long and they should come back wanting more.

Attitudes like yours do the average Porsche owners no favours at all.



:wtf:
 
Wattie said:
993C2S said:
Fact is Porsche have turned their backs on their 'over-engineering' approach as it costs too much, and have in the process oversteered the ship in the wrong direction.

Maybe, but they would have probably gone broke if they hadn't... And why should they look after the 6th, 7th, and 8th owner, who will probably never buy a new car from them, or use an OPC for that matter? To continue 'over-engineering' would have increased the new price significantly, such that they would no longer be competitive (and why should the first owner pay more just to reduce your running costs 10 years or more down the line?)

I totally understand the implications to Porsche of continuing with the 'over-engineering', but I used the word oversteer - meaning they've gone too far the other way IMHO. By all means cut costs, but not at the expense of a Porsche cornerstone - durability.

Trouble is these issues are not 6th/7th/8th owners, often 1st or 2nd!! Come on mate, cars with 15k miles have been affected! :eek:

Not accusing you of anything Wattie, just voicing my opinions :thumb:
 
adrian996 said:
"I was once told by someone at Porsche that nearly 50% of new 996s in the UK were registered to female keepers for example."

Hang on a minute! It's not just total sh**e! - It's total sexist sh**e!!!

Mate. To say that you're on thin ice on all fronts here would be like saying Hitler was a bit hasty!

calm down mate... OK, so I should have added the bit about 993s having over 75% male first owners for comparison. I was making no assertions about the relative ability of women drivers, but you seem to have done that for yourself :wink:

Regardless of your views on women's abilities the fact that you're defending Porsche on this is pretty unforgivable. "If you over-rev it they WILL fail??!!" What on earth are you on about??

Wattie. Porsches are £60K (++++) sports cars. You should be able to red-line them all day long and they should come back wanting more.

red-lining and over-revving are two completely different things: If you change down from 5th at 100mph and select 2nd by mistake, the engine will spin at approximately 10,000 rpm - very briefly... Before the valves make contact with the pistons and all sorts of other expensive misdemeanours

You will also find in the handbook some warnings about excessive revs and throttle with a cold engine and technically speaking, Porsche are within their rights to refuse a warranty claim if you have ignored that advice. However, as I said earlier, it is notoriously difficult to prove and so manufacturers tend to pay up... UNTIL the warranty has expired!

Attitudes like yours do the average Porsche owners no favours at all.

Whereas attitudes like yours don't do the human race any favours IMO :wack:
 
"Whereas attitudes like yours don't do the human race any favours IMO"

Wattie should have a sarge stripe torn off for this remark. I say demote him to corporal as he's been like an unbridled stallion(since buying a RRS) and running a mock on 911UK now that he has no Porsche baggage to worry or care about...unlike us very loyal but (sometimes engined concerned) Porsche owners :lol: :grin:

Either that or someone has hijacked his account as i can't imagine "oor wattie" upsetting anyone like this. :puh:
 
wizard993 said:
"Whereas attitudes like yours don't do the human race any favours IMO"

Wattie should have a sarge stripe torn off for this remark. I say demote him to corporal as he's been like an unbridled stallion(since buying a RRS) and running a mock on 911UK now that he has no Porsche baggage to worry or care about...unlike us very loyal but (sometimes engined concerned) Porsche owners :lol: :grin:

Either that or someone has hijacked his account as i can't imagine "oor wattie" upsetting anyone like this. :puh:

Sense of humour failure there :oops: , but I am the least sexist person that I know so I resent the accusation.

My point was that a lot of 996 first owners bought one for its physical attributes (and maybe 'snob' value) rather than to realise a life-long dream, or for the heritage of the brand. Don't know about you guys, but I don't recall seeing the ubiquitous 911 Turbo poster on the bedroom walls of any of my female friends at University, but it was on the walls of many of my male friends :)
 
hey...who I am to argue with Wattie.

Ok...engine blows up after 30k miles, Porsche admit could not have been prevented...computer put on engine to confirm car not be abused (I am 2nd owner)...so therefore by all accounts a day in the life of a well engineered engine.....

Somehow I think not
 
bigfish said:
David M said:
Big Bob said:
Hi Baxster
One thing to remember is you only ever hear the problems :judge: on expensive cars. All the satisfied people 8) don't write in to say I've had no problem.
So bear that in mind when you make your decision.
Best Regards Big Bob :bye:

And besides Bob's experience which is the same as mine - most people appreciate that it is an expensive car which could be expensive when it goes wrong and therefore buy a decent warranty!

Intersting view - expensive car & buy a decent warranty

I dont accept that a engine that has only covered 32,000 miles would NEED a warranty to be in place - my view is that it should not need replacing after so few miles...and that Porsche should step up & assist here.

Well that's your choice and you can live with the consequences. Personally I like to buy new cars, drive them like I stole them (even from cold) and have been known to participate in the odd track day or hill climb :D .

I will then sell them and buy my next victim...erm I mean car. What I can tell you is that 32k miles of that abuse is more than I would expect to get out of any engine including a Porsche. I would expect to be laughed at for trying to claim anything from a dealer without a comprehensive warranty and then expect to be challenged.

Do you also expect all your major electrical appliances to be covered for years just because you don't use them :?

Sorry - I also fail to see how the computer diagnostic can tell that the car has not been abused. Can you elaborate?
 

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