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Unreg gen 1 C2s/c4s, what % off list?

baxster

Well-known member
Joined
26 Dec 2008
Messages
236
Hello all, been lurking for a bit. Has anyone done a deal recently on one of the above, if so what sort of % off list could you get? 12% seems easily achievable just wondering if anyone managed 20%?
 
Can't help with your query but Welcome to 911uk! :bye:
 
baxster said:
Hello all, been lurking for a bit. Has anyone done a deal recently on one of the above, if so what sort of % off list could you get? 12% seems easily achievable just wondering if anyone managed 20%?

Hi and welcome...

As the dealers themselves don't even get 20% I think that is a little unlikely! However, if there are registration bonuses available it is just possible that you might get a bit more than 12% if you find a dealer who needs one or more sales to hit a bonus threshold?

It is seriously bad news for resale values if you really can get 12% easily though... Don't have a big balloon payment, and pay a big deposit if you are financing it - else you might be owning it for a very long time!
 
:welcome: To 911uk

(as far as I know) OPC get 17% plus £650 Model bonus..

I would guess they would give the 15% away on a Gen 1 911 !
But dont forget that 17% on the car and the options !!
 
With 2007 07 C2S advertised at less than £50k why bother buying a new Gen 1?
Either save £20k and buy a 12 month old one or buy a gen 2
You might get a load of discount but you'll also get a load of depreciation, in 2/3 years time what will it be worth?

I think/ hope that in 2/3 years time when the economy is stronger 2/3 year old gen 2's will be worth a lot more than cars today, because there will be shortage of 2/3 year old cars because they weren't sold new in the first place

I dont think cars will be as cheap as they are today,
or i could be wrong, in which case god help us
 
As I understand it the dealer margin starts lower than that figure but doubles if they pass their monthly audit from Porsche GB????

I would say 15% would be a good deal but as Mark points out you would probably be better off buying a 12 month old one for much less - still with a years warranty on it.
 
Thanks for the replies. I understand the argument against buying new, all I would say is that 17% off an 78K car (c4s) means the car comes out at 64k meaning year old cars arent that much of a bargain at 50-55k.
The other point for me is that I am not as keen on the rear end of the gen 2 cars.
 
baxster said:
Thanks for the replies. I understand the argument against buying new, all I would say is that 17% off an 78K car (c4s) means the car comes out at 64k meaning year old cars arent that much of a bargain at 50-55k.
The other point for me is that I am not as keen on the rear end of the gen 2 cars.

So what makes you think a dealer will give ALL of their margin away and sell a £78k car at a loss (to them)?

Whilst I don't support everything that OPCs do (warranty, labour rates, and new discs every time, for example), it does annoy me that successful business people still expect the car dealer to give away all their margin when it comes to selling a new car.

Nothing personal, but I sincerely hope you don't succeed in getting this sort of discount... This is the precise reason that 5-year old BMWs, Mercs, Jags, Maseratis, etc. are worth 3/5 of f**k all. Porsche residuals have suffered enough to threaten the entire brand's future already: If dealers start giving away 997s your brand new Gen 1 won't be worth £50-55k in a year's time - it will be about £40-45k if you're lucky.

Sorry - rant over!
 
Wattie said:
baxster said:
Thanks for the replies. I understand the argument against buying new, all I would say is that 17% off an 78K car (c4s) means the car comes out at 64k meaning year old cars arent that much of a bargain at 50-55k.
The other point for me is that I am not as keen on the rear end of the gen 2 cars.

So what makes you think a dealer will give ALL of their margin away and sell a £78k car at a loss (to them)?

Whilst I don't support everything that OPCs do (warranty, labour rates, and new discs every time, for example), it does annoy me that successful business people still expect the car dealer to give away all their margin when it comes to selling a new car.

Nothing personal, but I sincerely hope you don't succeed in getting this sort of discount... This is the precise reason that 5-year old BMWs, Mercs, Jags, Maseratis, etc. are worth 3/5 of f**k all. Porsche residuals have suffered enough to threaten the entire brand's future already: If dealers start giving away 997s your brand new Gen 1 won't be worth £50-55k in a year's time - it will be about £40-45k if you're lucky.

Sorry - rant over!
My figures are hypothetical as the point of the post is to see what is possible!
But while in rant mode I have had over the years my pants pulled down by many dealers come trade in so dont really have a problem with trying to negotiate my way into a favourable position. They can only say no! I suppose if you were a trader then it may seem unreasonable but life is about cycles and no doubt there time will come around when they can once again refuse discounts and offer riduculous part exchange values.
 
baxster said:
My figures are hypothetical as the point of the post is to see what is possible!
But while in rant mode I have had over the years my pants pulled down by many dealers come trade in so dont really have a problem with trying to negotiate my way into a favourable position. They can only say no! I suppose if you were a trader then it may seem unreasonable but life is about cycles and no doubt there time will come around when they can once again refuse discounts and offer riduculous part exchange values.

So why do you keep part-exchanging if you are convinced that dealers "have your pants down"? Car dealers in the UK used to make profits of much less than 5% Return on Sales before the Credit Crunch... They now aim to minimise their losses. Used car (i.e. your part-exchanges) stock are losing £,000s every month, and buyers of those cars expect a discount too.

I'm ranting again, but everyone reckons they are ripped off by p/x offers, as they all believe they could get more selling it privately - yet they don't want to do it: Why is that?

Could it be because they don't want to take the risk of being a victim of fraud or worse crime? Or they don't want the cost and hassle of advertising, demonstrating, negotiating and doing all the paperwork. Or because buyers want a warranty and all the defects to be fixed first, and a new MoT, Tax, and a tank full of fuel? Or because they don't want the hassle and risk of finance settlements? Or because they can't offer finance themselves? Or is it because they can't take the old car in part-exchange either - leaving that person with the same dilemna?

Or should dealers do all of the above for nothing?

I should explain: My livelihood has come from the Retail Motor Industry for all my working life and they really DON'T make excessive profits: In most cases you could get a far better return by sticking your cash in a Building Society than running a car dealership (especially at the moment).

There is probably nothing else you will ever buy that costs this much and has a lower profit margin than a new Porsche: Yet everyone still believes they are stitched up :wall:

(Admin - can I have a new name please :coat: )
 
Re: new C4s

dazzpowder said:
There are unregistered C4s selling for £64K already

If that's true, it is very sad...

Dealers competing with each other to buy business is the beginning of the end for residual values right the way through the range. :nooo:

I think Porsche GB were stupid to start selling Gen 2 cars while there was still Gen 1 stock around: If you buy a Gen 1 car today, what's that going to be worth in a year's time? £45k?
 
I think the attitude of some dealers doesn't help matters tbh and I can sympathise with the OP around having that sore feeling after trading in.

The main issue is that when we are talking about selling a car, we are talking about a reasonable amount of money and I'm extremely uncomfortable trying to sell 20/30/40k+ cars privately.

This when weighed up against the fact that we always think our car is worth more than it really is, means the reality is somewhere in the middle.

Even when taking that into account, I have had some amazingly p* taking offers for trade in. M3 convertible for example, offered at 8k less than the bottom price in Parkers, even though it had high spec and lower mileage.

The reality was that the dealer didn't want to take any car in as trade, so why not say that, rather than offering something stupid. In the end, I had the ball ache of selling it privately and made more than 10k on what I was offered privately. I'm happy to take a hit of a few grand, but you need to draw the line somewhere.

I know in this case that it would have been auctioned and they are limiting the risk, but why not be creative and agree a trade of whatever they get at auction less a percentage, otherwise they are making money on the sale and the trade-in!

Another example, I traded in a car, at an agreed trade in value. I saw it advertised by the same dealer, which was subsequently sold 5k above what we agreed. Fortunately, I subsequently discussed this with the dealer, who actually gave me some money back after the event (although, this was after I visited them!).

OPC for example (this one is owned by PCGB) have sold me and family loads of Porsche over the years. They offered a trade in (of a car which was bought from them new) of less than £30k, with no discount on a new 997. This was despite the fact that they had 1 in the showroom for £45k with more miles!

I absolutely understand that they need to make money and good margin, as there's overheads and salaries to pay and completely respect that, but there needs to be a bit of a balance.
 
I agree with what GD says but just so everyone is clear I am not questioning the trades needs for a margin in this post. My question was what could be had on an obsolete model. Normally any kind of retail outlet discounts obsolete models even behond cost so its not unreasonable to expect a high discount on an unregistered gen 1, obsolete, car.
I will also tell you that I approached 3 dealers with an interest in gen 1 cars just before xmas and I am amazed, despite all having access to gen 1 cars that only one has contacted me.
 
baxster said:
Thanks for the replies. I understand the argument against buying new, all I would say is that 17% off an 78K car (c4s) means the car comes out at 64k meaning year old cars arent that much of a bargain at 50-55k.
The other point for me is that I am not as keen on the rear end of the gen 2 cars.

Don't write off the GenII cars on the basis of the rear end. First, you'll get used to it and the GenI will start to look dated. Second, and more importantly, when you are driving, you can't see it anyway! :lol:

Seriously though I have just gone from one to the other and the GenII is a much better car in pretty much every respect.
 

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