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Chris W
Approved Trader


Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 7845
Location: North, South, East & West

2000 Porsche Boxster 986

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject: Shocks & dampers lost springiness Reply with quote

How do I tell if my shocks/dampers need replacing? They feel like they have lost some of their springiness when going over bumps. In fast bends the car seems to sit very flat and doesn't seem to have any body roll at all. :cry: Could they be leaking? Confused
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Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 12733
Location: Nürburgring Nordschleife

2003 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are they still OEM ? if OEM then they only have an effective life of circa 40k ?

a simple bounce test (when stationery) on each corner should highlight any issues i.e. they should return to their position evenly
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PolarExpress
Reims


Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 4396
Location: Prison

2000 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk1

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OEM shocks need replacing after 30-40k miles. Try a car with fresh units and the difference is night and day.
 
  
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Jeff
Indianapolis


Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 2377
Location: Chavley South South


PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

be careful where you place your hands when you push. I did it years ago and the pop sound of the bodywork brought tears to the eyes as did the little crease line afterwards....
Smile
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Dave
Reims


Joined: 29 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL Numpties the lot of you Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Chris W
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Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 7845
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2000 Porsche Boxster 986

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, this was after all Ask A Stupid Question Day. Laughing Laughing Laughing

As far as I'm concerned dampers are meant to stop springiness and a car should be cornering flat without roll. I'd be very worried if my dampers were springy!!



But HTH thank you for your kind replies and actually I am interested in knowing how/when to change the dampers as I'd hate to miss out. The car handles really well, but if it can be improved thats cool.
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Pickled Piper
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 1106
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your car is still running the original dampers you can assume that they are past their best. This doesn't mean that they are necessary leaking or that they will fail the bounce test. Most people don't notice with a 993 as the handling abilities are so good even with worn dampers.

With my car, I found it could get unsettled if it hit a bump midway through a bend. Now it has new dampers it remains composed in the same bends. I did fit M030 springs, roll bars and new wishbones as well.

pp
 
  
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tim993
Zolder


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 5228
Location: Hampshire

2016 Porsche Boxster 981

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting to read these comments on dampers.

Camtune road tested my car a couple of months ago and said the dampers were. It has done 40k, and i would guess they are the originals.

However, last month, fast sweeping corner with a ridge across, really unsettled the car - i could have sworn it stepped slightly sideways. Nothing more, I did not have to change the steering angle or make any other correction, but was a bit unnerving...

Could this be the dampers?

cheers

Tim
 
  
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ShadesOfRed
Nürburgring


Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 496
Location: UK


PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the typical sign of knackered shocks. I didn't like my car at speed on a bumpy road with the original shocks; it seemed the steering needed a couple of corrections before the car would take a constant radius in a turn. Dips or bumps in the turn would cause the car to lose its composure and it would crash over cracks and the like. New Bilstein HD's from Carnewal transformed the car; it rode and handled mcuh better.
 
  
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tim993
Zolder


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 5228
Location: Hampshire

2016 Porsche Boxster 981

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your comment. I will plan for new shocks in the new year. Silly question maybe, but do the springs also wear out, or should i just replace the shocks and, are Bilstein HDs the best ones to use on a TT?

cheers

tim
 
  
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 5668



PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took my car (OK it's a 996) into OPC in cologne this morning for new shocks if needed and they have a proper testing jig there: The service 'leader' put the car on the jig and all four corners came up well within tolerance and he suggested that they weren't needed: In fact, he stated that he would have been very surprised if thay had been needed as he said he couldn't ever remember needing to chang shocks on a 996 under 200,000kms!

A couple of things to note here:

When was the last time a UK OPC advised any of you NOT to spend £1500 plus when you had suggested it?

Why don't UK OPC's have one of these testing jigs? (Probably answer my own question here, but the MoT test doesn't require a 'proper' scientific test of dampers - unlike the German bi-annual test)

How good an experience would it be for you to drive into an OPC and have their most senior technical person drive the car immediately into an inspection bay and go over the issues with you and show you waht they had found?

Astonishing level of service here - don't know whether I'm getting VIP treatment as a 'rare' visiting enthusiast from England, but I can't imagine a typical UK OPC even being able to communicate with anyone that can't speak English!


Back to the point of the thread though... I was experiencing the same and felt my shocks needed changing (at 90,000 miles), but the dealer has found worn track rod ends and is changing them and doing a full geo. and seems confident it will resolve the problem...

I'll report after my drive home tomorrow!
 
  
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tim993
Zolder


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 5228
Location: Hampshire

2016 Porsche Boxster 981

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'd best not jump to conclusions then! Camtune said mine were fine - car is 11 years old / 40k miles....
 
  
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 5668



PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add to the above, Herr Rudamacher said that worn shocks would not cause the suspension to get harsher - in fact quite the opposite, it would get bouncier! Unless of course all the fluid had escaped, in which case they would not pass the most rudimentary of pushing down on the corner tests!

(To check this open the bonnet or engine cover and push on something internal that won't dent!) Twisted

As an engineer, that definitely makes sense... more likely to be bushes that cause the crashing and bumping, and others changing their entire suspension will have meant changing most of these bushes, and that may be the fix - rather than the springs or shocks themselves?
 
  
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ShadesOfRed
Nürburgring


Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 496
Location: UK


PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tim993 wrote:
but do the springs also wear out, or should i just replace the shocks and, are Bilstein HDs the best ones to use on a TT?


The springs should be fine. If it's for street use the HD's are a good choice; if you want to take the car on track the PSS-9's are the better choice. For real world road use the HD's are a good cest-effective choice but they are too soft at 120+ on sections of the the Ring. Very Happy

Wattie wrote:
Just to add to the above, Herr Rudamacher said that worn shocks would not cause the suspension to get harsher - in fact quite the opposite, it would get bouncier! Unless of course all the fluid had escaped, in which case they would not pass the most rudimentary of pushing down on the corner tests!


I can't speak for what shocks 996s use (but they sound like better quality than the crap Monroes used on the 993tt) but I can assure you ride and handling improved. They had 7 years and 80K km on them.

I don't think you can test 993 shocks just by pushing down on the car; the car is so stiffly sprung you'll get little deflection. You need a shock dyno of some sort which German OPCs seem to have.

And I would steer clear of a UK OPC if you own a 993; I don't think many of them have technicians who worked there when the air-cooled cars were being sold. Most of those trained on the air-cooled cars have left and gone into business elsewhere. And the UK OPC labour rates are £110 per hour and above - ludicrous for people that don't know the cars very well any longer.
 
  
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993C2S
Zolder


Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 5996
Location: Berkshire

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll second felix here. I also can't comment on 996s, but my own 993 felt terrible on it's original dampers at 59k miles. I replaced the dampers with Bilstein HDs and the car handles better and feels more comfortable - by this I don't mean it rides better, but more feels more secure and controlled, so is easier to drive and control. I kept the original springs BTW.
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Carrera
Estoril


Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 3642
Location: In a village far far away


PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The shocks used in 993 (Boge or Monroe) are not know to last well. So a worn shock is likely BUT, unstable handling esp on bumpy roads can also be caused by worn bushes or Geometry out of alignment.

Before spending thousands on shocks, check all bushes, and a full proper geo with ride heights, corner weight, camber, caster and toe fully checked and adjusted. a good proper geo set up to factory readings will improve things no end in most cases!
 
  
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