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mike creer
Newbie


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 40
Location: Guildford/Dorking


PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys n gals,

Just hoping some of you techies out there can cast light on two questions I have.

Firstly, BRAKES : Had a grinding noise recently from my rear brakes. This is not the first time it has happened. Driving the C4S away from the showroom after having purchased it I got vibration through the steering wheel when peeling the speed off gently - turned out to be the discs(7.5k miles!) - problem sorted(skimmed) FOC by dealer.

This time have had brakes checked out by friendly and trustworthy non-OPD garage near my home. After all the wheels were taken off I was asked to have a look. There was NO evidence of copper grease anywhere around the brakes or hub! Is this usual? I would have thought there would have been SOME evidence of grease! Apparantly a very light application of copper grease or such-like prevents rust and wheel seizing onto hub amongst other things.

The grinding noise turned out to be coming from one of the rear inside discs where the pad had almost "bonded" onto the disc in the wet conditions after the car hadnt been used for 10 days or so. (It sits outside under a breathable cover). Brakes have now been thoroughly cleaned and greased.

But Im interested to know if the non-greasing is standard practice... the rather abrupt man at AFN didnt seem to know what I meant when I questioned him about copper grease!

Secondly: RMS?? Read lots of threads about it. Glad Ive parted with 725 to extend my warranty! But what does RMS actually stand for? Sorry to appear so dull!!! My vehicle has done 15k...should I be concerned? Do Porsche check this out during an annual service? Should I ask them? Im about to drive down to Le Mans in it....could do without it going "pop" on a French Toll road!



Thanks folks....an excellent web-site,some fantastic info...and even great banter!

Love my Porsche....but have hated its recent devaluation!

Best wishes

Mike

'04 996 C4S








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Seagull
Estoril


Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 3657



PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike. I believe the greasing around the hub to prevent the disc sticking is an optional thing but I'm sure I'll be corrected on this.

RMS (Rear Main Seal) is the main seal where the shaft comes out of the crank case and goes into the gearbox. It can fail at any time or not at all - it's just the luck of the draw although a high percentage of water cooled Porsches do need it replaced. I had mine replaced this week at 20,000 miles and yes, the OPC called me to say it had gone whilst it was having it's annual service. The usual signs are spots of oil on the garage floor central on the axis of the car and underneath the engine. Other signs are a deposit of oil on the join between the engine and box. It isn't a catasrophic failure so you don't need to worry about your trip to Le Mans. It is a constant threat though Porsche are on about the 5th version of the seal and the 3rd version of the tool to seat it properly so once it's been done, it is no guarentee that it wont go again. I think you just have to account for it in the running cost of the car but then so effectively is the extended warranty. They cost the same amount of money but the warranty also covers for the other potential problems of collapsed crank and split liners.


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mike creer
Newbie


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 40
Location: Guildford/Dorking


PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Seagull,

Thanks very much for that info on RMS failure. I'll definately be getting them to check that all's ok during my next service!

As for the brake grease....Im convinced that a little application is better than none at all - especially in our climate!

Any other comments from anyone on either subject very welcome.

thanks again

Mike


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Carrera
Estoril


Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 3642
Location: In a village far far away


PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, are you saying you'd put copper grease on the brake disc to stop the pad bonding/sticking to disc due to rust???? If so, that would be a mad mad thing to do, you'll find out why the next time you try to use your brakes!

Porsche uses iron that rusts easier for the discs because of the extra friction you get during braking. If you leave the car for any length of time the discs will rust. That's why if you're not going to drive the car for sometime, always put it in gear rather than putting the hand brake on. Also remmember to dry the brakes by driving round the block after washing will help.


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mike creer
Newbie


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 40
Location: Guildford/Dorking


PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Butzi, No ,no not at all! I do see sense in putting grease on the hub(where there's contact with the alloy wheel...and also where the wheel nuts/scews sit flush against the hub)...but DEFINATELY NOT between pad and disc!

Thanks though for the "top tip" regarding just leaving the car in gear and also drying the brakes out after washing etc... that's something I'll put into practice in future.

Cheers

Mike


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Mark911
Nürburgring


Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 397



PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike,

regarding the copper grease and brakes, a spot of copper grease applied to the back of the disc pad is known to prevent a brake squeal only.

A small amount of copper grease also on the wheel stud/bolt threads helps to prevent them seizing and snapping off on removal but do not apply any to tapered base of the bolt or nut.

As Butzi pointed out, always go round the block to dry your brakes off after washing the car - and it's another good excuse to drive it anyway Very Happy


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hog
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 374
Location: Qatar & Cornwall

2009 Porsche 997 GT2

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been common practice for years to smear the BACK of brake pads, anti-rattle springs, retaining pins, etc, with some type of anti-seize grease - Coppaslip or Wurth anti-seize are popular in the garage trade.

It also helps to smear the back of alloy wheels with the same stuff, to prevent them seizing onto the steel hubs. Some manufacturers don't do this from new - don't know why, perhaps it saves time and costs on the assembly line. But every mechanic that I know does it, probably knowing that it will make life easier for the next time he or another has to do a brake strip or wheel removal. It does seem to cut down on brake squeal but I think that is more a function of pad compounds than reducing backing plate friction.


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Porsche Torque
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
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1987 Porsche 930 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not all the the techs who work at opc`s take pride in their work. at a lot of opc`s the pay is crap so porsche pay peanuts to their staff and they employ lots of monkeys ,most of have not been trained on the older cars and can not work on them and it`s left to people like me to work on anything older than 993`s .the work is not checked often by quality control in the opc`s and their are alot of bodgers around in these workshops .on 996 and boxsters a "good" technician will always rub down the corrosion between the wheel hub and the wheel and apply some copperslip or cu800 to make sure that the wheel will not seize on the hub again.porsche don`t use copperslip on the back of the brake pads we always use new damper plates or something by wurth called antisqueak spray which is like a adhesive.the rear main oil seal is the latest 997 seal which seems to be curing the problem at the moment.but another seal which always leaks is the intermediate shaft seal which sits below the rms on removal of the intermediate shaft flange there is a small o ring on the nose of the shaft which must be changed but most techs don`t .this o ring stops oil getting through the flange.


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Tiptronic
Shanghai


Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 4685



PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sid, is the detoriation of the front radiators due to corrosion a manufacturing fault or wear and tear?

Car in question is a 22k miles 03 C4S with FPSH and in Fab condition, they rekon leaves and debry have caused the problem

Daz


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Seagull
Estoril


Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 3657



PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting Sid. I had my RMS and intermediate shaft seal replaced last week (at 20,000 on a 3 y.o. targa) as a goodwill gesture from PGB, even though it's 11 1/2 months out of warranty - see the post "Big Up for Porsche GB" Do you know if you can request a technician by name to work on your car? I for one would take mine to WLOPC if they could guarentee that someone llike you was going to do the work rather than take the chance in a lottery of getting a 'monkey' working on it. I may not be in the fortunate position of having money as no object - I stretched myself to get the car I had always dreamed of, but made sure I kept enough aside to run it properly. If I'm paying 99 + VAT an hour, I think I deserve to have a competant technician work on it. If not, I'd rather take it to a specialist who is going to respect it in the same way I do.

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Porsche Torque
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it`s usually debris and the odd stone flying into them but have known some of them to rot

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Tiptronic
Shanghai


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the chaps on here had his replaced on a similar age and milage to mine cos they said it was crakced,

Am I right in thinking that the radiator has a steel core with fins welded on, so is it possible that one OPC's corrosion is another OPC's cracking?

Daz

P.S mine has the ext wtty


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Porsche Torque
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can request that a certain tech works on your car as you are the customer and the opc must respect that .i get alot of my old customers from porsche staples corner coming to chiswick for me !!! they will have to come to porsche centre hatfield from next week

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Seagull
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you're playing hard to get then Sid? That will definitely raise Hatfield's stock from what I've heard. The run up there would certainly warm the oil up and make it easy to change.

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911Silverback
Nürburgring


Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 457



PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:

Quote: Originally posted by sid malik on 02 May 2006

you can request that a certain tech works on your car as you are the customer and the opc must respect that .i get alot of my old customers from porsche staples corner coming to chiswick for me !!! they will have to come to porsche centre hatfield from next week


Sid

Hatfield has a really bad rep on here.

Its my closest OPC by far, but have avoided using it as much as poss, in fact i was going to go Chiswick or Cambridge to ext my warranty.. and i only live 20 mins away

It seems the after sales and ext warranty is a particular issue here as iv not heard anyone having anything positive to say about Hatfield!.. other than how nice the new showroom is..

Hopefully with the likes of yourself now working there, this may change in the future.

However you may want to convey to the powers that be at Hatfield, that they have already lost business from at least 4 members on here that i definitely know of, (and how many more people that read these threads who knows??) Also may i suggest they want to change there attitude of charging people for work that SHOULD be covered under warranty. Cos at this rate there going to run out of business..

Not having a go at you fella, and sorry if it comes over like that

Welcome to the forum

Regards

...rob


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mike creer
Newbie


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 40
Location: Guildford/Dorking


PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all your comments guys! Just a few more questions.....

Seagull,....When you had your RMS replaced on your Targa..did they do it completely FOC or did they charge you for labour,but not for parts? Did you get it done during it's annual service?

Sid....obviously with a bit of "inside knowledge" your comments are invaluable...THANK YOU! But please be careful that you dont get dropped in the "sh*t"....employers tend not too like their employees commenting to press or on websites. Good for you though that you have the "b*lls" to comment and tell us all how it really is ...be it failure of parts,shoddy workmanship or crap pay!

It would appear that with Porsche (like MANY major companies) the very good public perception of them(due to their name and history) far exceeds their performance! But that's an entirely different discussion!

Can't believe how much info Ive gained being a member of this forum!

Thanks guys!

Mike

'04 996 C4S tip




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Porsche Torque
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1987 Porsche 930 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you see there are not many good techs left in the network most of the good one`s have left years ago.i started at afn isleworth in 1988 and at chiswick only 2 tech`s are still there and 2 from afn chelsea as they merged the staff from those two branches in 1992.hatfield will get better hopefully i start back there on the the 8th of may .i moved to chiswick opc in august after the closure of porsche staples corner as it was nearer to me but i have been asked to come back to hatfield by the d.p. hatfield had got 5 very good techicians with whom i`ve worked with before at staples corner ,if anyone has any problems with their car they can ask for me at hatfield .one last thing there are alot of management bods from mercedes benz working within the opc`s they are trying to make things work like a merc dealership ?it will never happen

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F1_Dragon
Kyalami


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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Location: London

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sid, thanks for your comments. I had Michael L work on my car last 2 days, seems to have done a good enough job, but there's no real way for us punters to know is there really... Confused

I echo what Rob said, hatfield is actually closer to me that WL, but i took out my extended warranty with WL due to Hatfield's bad rep and the fact nobody phoned me back after i left a message with their reception asking to renew it.

Does it matter that my warranty is with WL, if i want to service it at Hatfield? Would they be less inclined to do work under warranty and finally, do you know off hand if rads are covered at Hatfield??? I would sleep easier if i knew somebody such as yourself was looking after my car.

thanks again...




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Haran
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Seagull
Estoril


Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by mike creer on 03 May 2006

Thanks for all your comments guys! Just a few more questions.....

Seagull,....When you had your RMS replaced on your Targa..did they do it completely FOC or did they charge you for labour,but not for parts? Did you get it done during it's annual service?

Thanks guys!

Mike

'04 996 C4S tip



Mike. They picked up the whole bill. Parts about 50 + VAT, Labour about 600 + VAT

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Jay T
Barcelona


Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 1334
Location: Out West


PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by F1_Dragon on 03 May 2006

Does it matter that my warranty is with WL, if i want to service it at Hatfield? Would they be less inclined to do work under warranty and finally, do you know off hand if rads are covered at Hatfield??? I would sleep easier if i knew somebody such as yourself was looking after my car.

Warranty is dealer independent. My car was warrantied with Reading, but Bristol were more than happy to honour it.

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