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Tobyone
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Joined: 20 Jan 2018
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Location: Somewhere else


PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:07 am    Post subject: GT3 buying advice Reply with quote

Hello and happy Easter all

At the moment I have an what must be the most immaculate c4s anywhere but I fancy a new car.
Have a 70k ish budget and I THINK so gt3 gen 1 is the way to go because I only do around 3000 miles a year at a push, would like something that is more of an event to own/drive and generally be a bit more exciting generally.

What spec does a gt3 need to be?
For instance there is a silver on at OPC chester for 79000with 14000 miles on it, but it has no sport chronology package, does this matter?

What things are there to be wary of?

Think I would rather buy from an OPC and keep a Porsche warranty going for peace on mind.
Unless they are not to fragile.

Thanks everyone

Wink
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hopeydaze
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With that low a mileage I doubt there’s much to be worried about. I’m not aware the sports chrono adds anything performance wise. Also, and it’s a matter of personal taste, I prefer bucket seats. They add to the sense of occasion especially when you don’t drive the car very often.
 
  
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Tobyone
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hopeydaze wrote:
With that low a mileage I doubt there’s much to be worried about. I’m not aware the sports chrono adds anything performance wise. Also, and it’s a matter of personal taste, I prefer bucket seats. They add to the sense of occasion especially when you don’t drive the car very often.


Smashing that answers that one.
Bucket seats yes I was thinking the same
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
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2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sport Chrono on a GT3 literally just adds the stopwatch wart to the middle of the dashboard (unlike other 911s where you need it to get the aggressive throttle mode and in some cases launch control, you get the sport button anyway on a GT3 and it really does amount to just the clock).

On the 997.1, the seat question can only be resolved by sitting in them. The only bucket seat offered was the narrow version of the Carrera GT style seat and unlike the 996 fixed and 997.2 folding buckets it is not very one-size-fits-all. If it fits you then you want buckets, but you have to check for comfort first. Buckets are unusually less common on the 997.1 (as they were a ~£4k option, unlike the 996 where they were standard and no cost to option conventional sports seats) and are consequently highly desirable in the market.

Other than that, Clubsport is very desirable (assuming that you fit in those buckets) and typically attracts a premium. Sunroofs are quite the opposite, though extremely rare on this side of the Atlantic (they were actually standard on US spec cars for some kind of type approval reason at the time). You do want air conditioning (very rarely deleted on 997s), the PCM system isn't great so you ought not care about that, ceramic brakes are hilariously expensive to replace (though they can now be remanufactured that still isn't cheap and most end up switched to steel sooner or later) so don't pay a premium for them.
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M&MD&D
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Joined: 28 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a really good article in issue 177 of Total 911 comparing the 996 and 997.1 as the price point between the two has narrowed a lot. The author concluded that 997.1 was the way to go.

They also seem to be doing a piece on the soon to be released issue 178.

You can back order copies of the magazine for £4.99 from https://www.total911.com/
 
  
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Tobyone
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Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 277
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disco wrote:
Sport Chrono on a GT3 literally just adds the stopwatch wart to the middle of the dashboard (unlike other 911s where you need it to get the aggressive throttle mode and in some cases launch control, you get the sport button anyway on a GT3 and it really does amount to just the clock).

On the 997.1, the seat question can only be resolved by sitting in them. The only bucket seat offered was the narrow version of the Carrera GT style seat and unlike the 996 fixed and 997.2 folding buckets it is not very one-size-fits-all. If it fits you then you want buckets, but you have to check for comfort first. Buckets are unusually less common on the 997.1 (as they were a ~£4k option, unlike the 996 where they were standard and no cost to option conventional sports seats) and are consequently highly desirable in the market.

Other than that, Clubsport is very desirable (assuming that you fit in those buckets) and typically attracts a premium. Sunroofs are quite the opposite, though extremely rare on this side of the Atlantic (they were actually standard on US spec cars for some kind of type approval reason at the time). You do want air conditioning (very rarely deleted on 997s), the PCM system isn't great so you ought not care about that, ceramic brakes are hilariously expensive to replace (though they can now be remanufactured that still isn't cheap and most end up switched to steel sooner or later) so don't pay a premium for them.



Colin
Cheers fella I do appreciate that and answers most things, I would not of thought about the buckets being a potential fitting issue but now I know super.
PCM indeed like my 4s it is rubbish and only use it for the wireless anyway.
Once again cheers
Just got to get one now.
Toby
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Tobyone
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M&MD&D wrote:
There is a really good article in issue 177 of Total 911 comparing the 996 and 997.1 as the price point between the two has narrowed a lot. The author concluded that 997.1 was the way to go.

They also seem to be doing a piece on the soon to be released issue 178.

You can back order copies of the magazine for £4.99 from https://www.total911.com/


Researching it right now Very Happy
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Roro
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here’s my 2 cents... Smile

997 GT3s are fairly robust, if you need a warranty for piece of mind then that’s fine, but I’d be interested to know the percentage of GT3 owners of cars this age have a Porsche warranty. Personally I wouldn’t restrict the search to just the OPC network as you could needlessly miss out on a decent car

I would agree that buckets are worthwhile but don’t let that stop you from only looking for a Clubsport... But I would say that... Mine isn’t a Clubsport, but I have Recaro Pole Positions which are very similar seats as the “Porsche” versions fitted to the Clubsport (Recaro make them). I have the XL size seats which are slightly bigger than regular, but they are still a very comfy fit. Like Colin says you really need to try for size to see if they suit you

If you’re not afraid of doing a few mods, then worthy upgrades you might want to look at are lighter alloy wheels (like OZ), as they make the car feel lighter and improve the handling somewhat (as this mod would do for any car). Also a centre muffler bypass is a fun mod too (although this can be a pain if you plan to do track days anywhere other than the Nordschleife, Spa or Silverstone, due to track day noise limits)

If you are doing track days then fitting 245 section tyres on the front will help reduce understeer. Also avoid the factory spec geometry as this is supposedly ‘safe’ and pro-understeer. Suggest a visit to Centre Gravity for a more neutral balanced geometry setting, which will provide noticeable benefits for road as well as track driving

If you’re looking for a completely standard car, then finding one with a OPC warranty should in theory be a good guarantee that the car is indeed standard. It may have been modded in the past but most mods such as those described above are reversible. So if you find a car on your travels that has been modded, don’t ignore it as it should be fairly straight forward to return to stock. Unless you’re talking cars with engine modifications but that would be very rare...

I think people tend to hold on to 996/997 GT3s these days (unless a change in circumstances forces a sale), which is why there are relatively few for sale (although they weren’t produced in huge numbers in the first place). I’ve had mine for 8 years - it had 3 owners in its first 4 years (I put that down to “new toy” syndrome experienced by most new sports cars), so don’t necessarily be put off by a car that has a high number of previous owners. What is “high” is of course debatable...

Assuming you get out on a test drive, listen out for a creaking noise from the front end when going from lock to lock, this will most likely be worn DU bushes in the Bilsteins which will need a refurb

Note also that the factory LSD is made of chocolate, so look for evidence that this has been replaced or upgraded to either the Motorsport or Guards LSD

I can’t think of much else. Coolant pipes are a major issue across the pond but seems to be less of an issue over here in the UK, but seriously tracked cars should probably benefit from having the coolant pipes welded or pinned in (the factory glues can work themselves loose after sustained heat cycles apparently)

Goes without saying that you should look for signs the car has been looked after and maintained regularly. Over-maintenance isn’t a bad thing too especially for a car that has seen the track, so look for evidence of extra oil changes between main services for instance

The above is based on my experience of the 997.1 GT3 specifically, but probably applies as much to the 997.2 and 996 models

Good luck with the search Thumb
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Tobyone
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 277
Location: Somewhere else


PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roro wrote:
Here’s my 2 cents... Smile

997 GT3s are fairly robust, if you need a warranty for piece of mind then that’s fine, but I’d be interested to know the percentage of GT3 owners of cars this age have a Porsche warranty. Personally I wouldn’t restrict the search to just the OPC network as you could needlessly miss out on a decent car

I would agree that buckets are worthwhile but don’t let that stop you from only looking for a Clubsport... But I would say that... Mine isn’t a Clubsport, but I have Recaro Pole Positions which are very similar seats as the “Porsche” versions fitted to the Clubsport (Recaro make them). I have the XL size seats which are slightly bigger than regular, but they are still a very comfy fit. Like Colin says you really need to try for size to see if they suit you

If you’re not afraid of doing a few mods, then worthy upgrades you might want to look at are lighter alloy wheels (like OZ), as they make the car feel lighter and improve the handling somewhat (as this mod would do for any car). Also a centre muffler bypass is a fun mod too (although this can be a pain if you plan to do track days anywhere other than the Nordschleife, Spa or Silverstone, due to track day noise limits)

If you are doing track days then fitting 245 section tyres on the front will help reduce understeer. Also avoid the factory spec geometry as this is supposedly ‘safe’ and pro-understeer. Suggest a visit to Centre Gravity for a more neutral balanced geometry setting, which will provide noticeable benefits for road as well as track driving

If you’re looking for a completely standard car, then finding one with a OPC warranty should in theory be a good guarantee that the car is indeed standard. It may have been modded in the past but most mods such as those described above are reversible. So if you find a car on your travels that has been modded, don’t ignore it as it should be fairly straight forward to return to stock. Unless you’re talking cars with engine modifications but that would be very rare...

I think people tend to hold on to 996/997 GT3s these days (unless a change in circumstances forces a sale), which is why there are relatively few for sale (although they weren’t produced in huge numbers in the first place). I’ve had mine for 8 years - it had 3 owners in its first 4 years (I put that down to “new toy” syndrome experienced by most new sports cars), so don’t necessarily be put off by a car that has a high number of previous owners. What is “high” is of course debatable...

Assuming you get out on a test drive, listen out for a creaking noise from the front end when going from lock to lock, this will most likely be worn DU bushes in the Bilsteins which will need a refurb

Note also that the factory LSD is made of chocolate, so look for evidence that this has been replaced or upgraded to either the Motorsport or Guards LSD

I can’t think of much else. Coolant pipes are a major issue across the pond but seems to be less of an issue over here in the UK, but seriously tracked cars should probably benefit from having the coolant pipes welded or pinned in (the factory glues can work themselves loose after sustained heat cycles apparently)

Goes without saying that you should look for signs the car has been looked after and maintained regularly. Over-maintenance isn’t a bad thing too especially for a car that has seen the track, so look for evidence of extra oil changes between main services for instance

The above is based on my experience of the 997.1 GT3 specifically, but probably applies as much to the 997.2 and 996 models

Good luck with the search Thumb



Thank you that is a good bit of advice for me.
I am only wary of a private sale for fear of being ripped of and or a hidden gremlin that will smack me around the ears.
But yes I would buy from a good independent or a well known user here on the forum.
Robust seams to be a common thing folks are saying.
My own mods, yep defiantly as being an engineering I am a bit tinkerer anyway.
Thats it soon as I see one at the right money I am having it.
Not fussed on colour as long as it does not have full red interior.


Thumb Thumb
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Windy101
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you plan to modify a standard car that you buy with an OPC warranty, you may run into possible issues making any claims and will not be able to further extend your warranty at renewal time.

I have kept a warranty on my 997.1 GT3 and it has probably paid for itself.
 
  
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Tobyone
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Joined: 20 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Windy101 wrote:
If you plan to modify a standard car that you buy with an OPC warranty, you may run into possible issues making any claims and will not be able to further extend your warranty at renewal time.

I have kept a warranty on my 997.1 GT3 and it has probably paid for itself.



The OPC warranty with my c4s has paid for itself as the condensers for the air con have been replaced then the PCM unit packed up and that was replaced with a new one
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Roro
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes problem with the warranty is you can’t do much to the car modification-wise. There is some flexibility depending on your relationship with your particular OPC, but that can’t be relied on

I had a warranty for the first 3 years of ownership but only had the starter motor go. Maybe one or two other minor things. The top mounts were replaced under warranty too but that didn’t fix the issue at the time (creaking noises from the front) which was with the DU bushes which weren’t covered. That cost me around £1k to fix myself, on top of the warranty which I had already paid for that year. I forget what the warranty costs, £1400 per year?

So the starter motor would have cost me about £800. Since I’ve been running without the warranty the side condensers needed replacing, and the alternator could probably do with replacing in the next 2/3k miles. I guess that probably would be covered by the warranty as it’s not a wear and tear item

Oh, and the LSD I’m pretty sure is a wear and tear item and wouldn’t be replaced under warranty - that was about £1500 parts and labour from memory

Porsche prices are inflated though, so you get a skewed idea of the real costs for parts and labour for these jobs. I got a quote a few months ago from my OPC on a new alternator and I think the quote was in the region of £1k. Obviously, if I had a warranty I would have thought oh thank god that’s covered. However, I got a quote from a Porsche specialist of £450 for the same parts and labour

Also a very cynical thing to say would be that OPCs actually like to replace things under warranty as doing so helps sell warranties. Imagine if no one ever had much replaced under warranty, who would buy them?

So I wouldn’t worry myself silly about running one of these without warranty as the types of things that go wrong won’t justify the cost of the warranty in the long run, unless it’s the engine that goes bang. In that case then yes I’d certainly wish I had a warranty...

I’ve been banking the cash since cancelling my warranty, and taking off what I’ve had to pay out on warrantable repairs since still leaves me about 6/7k ahead

However that’s just me and my views on insurance policies (which is what the Porsche warranty is), other views will differ

As for the PCM, I deleted mine years ago, took it out and replaced it with the cubby shelf - one of the cheapest and best mods ever. The part was about £80. Who needs music when you have a Mezger? Smile
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Tobyone
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Joined: 20 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roro wrote:
Yes problem with the warranty is you can’t do much to the car modification-wise. There is some flexibility depending on your relationship with your particular OPC, but that can’t be relied on

I had a warranty for the first 3 years of ownership but only had the starter motor go. Maybe one or two other minor things. The top mounts were replaced under warranty too but that didn’t fix the issue at the time (creaking noises from the front) which was with the DU bushes which weren’t covered. That cost me around £1k to fix myself, on top of the warranty which I had already paid for that year. I forget what the warranty costs, £1400 per year?

So the starter motor would have cost me about £800. Since I’ve been running without the warranty the side condensers needed replacing, and the alternator could probably do with replacing in the next 2/3k miles. I guess that probably would be covered by the warranty as it’s not a wear and tear item

Oh, and the LSD I’m pretty sure is a wear and tear item and wouldn’t be replaced under warranty - that was about £1500 parts and labour from memory

Porsche prices are inflated though, so you get a skewed idea of the real costs for parts and labour for these jobs. I got a quote a few months ago from my OPC on a new alternator and I think the quote was in the region of £1k. Obviously, if I had a warranty I would have thought oh thank god that’s covered. However, I got a quote from a Porsche specialist of £450 for the same parts and labour

Also a very cynical thing to say would be that OPCs actually like to replace things under warranty as doing so helps sell warranties. Imagine if no one ever had much replaced under warranty, who would buy them?

So I wouldn’t worry myself silly about running one of these without warranty as the types of things that go wrong won’t justify the cost of the warranty in the long run, unless it’s the engine that goes bang. In that case then yes I’d certainly wish I had a warranty...

I’ve been banking the cash since cancelling my warranty, and taking off what I’ve had to pay out on warrantable repairs since still leaves me about 6/7k ahead

However that’s just me and my views on insurance policies (which is what the Porsche warranty is), other views will differ

As for the PCM, I deleted mine years ago, took it out and replaced it with the cubby shelf - one of the cheapest and best mods ever. The part was about £80. Who needs music when you have a Mezger? Smile



Funny that as yesterday i was thinking about removing mine and just use my iPhone as I worked out how to link it to the amp and speakers.
I am not an insurance person and never have ever taken insurance out on anything other than this car and now it is up I am wondering to bother or not, especially as I may well sell it
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Diggermeister
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you restrict yourself to only buying from the OPC, then you will be looking at a far narrower choice of cars. Put simply, especially as they get older, most are sold through specialist, independent dealers.

You could do worse than contact trusted indies - JZM, RPM, 911Virgin etc. - even if they have nothing in stock, because very often they know of cars before they come on sale.

My own car sold and, within less than a week, was replaced in the indie dealer's showroom with a car that was near identical, bar the paint colour. Price, mileage and spec were the same. I'm guessing they clearly did not have space to keep two on show.

Try the buckets - they are a bit Marmite and you will either fit them and get on with them or not.
 
  
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911UK
Porsche Community
Porsche Community


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1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tobyone if youre looking for one

PM me, deal to be had on this

2006 997 GT3
46,000 miles
Basalt Black with full black interior and matching Alcantara Hard Backed
Sports Chrono
PSE (Switchable exhaust)
Air Con
PASM
Thacham Cat 1 Alarm
FSH from new OPC and renowned Porsche Specialists
Folding Sports Seats
Last serviced at 43k by Porsche Torque
No Rev ranges at all
Full suspension set up by Centre of Gravity
New clutch, engine mounts and dual mass flywheel
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freddie44
Albert Park


Joined: 20 Aug 2009
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2007 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the car above and have been trying to get a good friend to buy it for months. Such a great car for 72k - wish i could buy it and have two!
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rc944
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its a good un.... its still on PH but the dealer has removed from their own website

not much seems to be moving at all in 997.1 gt3 world?
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Tobyone
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggermeister wrote:
If you restrict yourself to only buying from the OPC, then you will be looking at a far narrower choice of cars. Put simply, especially as they get older, most are sold through specialist, independent dealers.

You could do worse than contact trusted indies - JZM, RPM, 911Virgin etc. - even if they have nothing in stock, because very often they know of cars before they come on sale.

My own car sold and, within less than a week, was replaced in the indie dealer's showroom with a car that was near identical, bar the paint colour. Price, mileage and spec were the same. I'm guessing they clearly did not have space to keep two on show.

Try the buckets - they are a bit Marmite and you will either fit them and get on with them or not.


Will do, I shall look at the black one mentioned in posts
Sounds like a plan
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Roro
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rc944 wrote:
not much seems to be moving at all in 997.1 gt3 world?


... that’s because there aren’t that many for sale Question
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Senoj
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tobyone wrote:



Funny that as yesterday i was thinking about removing mine and just use my iPhone as I worked out how to link it to the amp and speakers.


Funny you say this as we were trying to figure out how a while back, just seems the most ideal solution to me. Care to share the method?

Thx
 
  
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