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Carerra s with 98k
- Thread starter tvrkris
- Start date
OP, a friend of mine was looking for a 997 S not so long ago. He looked at 11 cars and only 1 had clean cylinders. The only one with no scoring ended up being a car on >100k miles. All the garage queens and low mileage examples were scored.
It is not internet scare tales.
:thumb:
It is not internet scare tales.
:thumb:
ragpicker said:
but does it need to be absolutely 'clean' cylinders?
I do wonder whether, because of the obsession with 997 bore scoring, we are more inclined to look harder at these cars when, presumably, all cars suffer from some kind of bore wear
I'm no mechanic, i just think 10/11 cars suggests we're looking for a unicorn if we want as new engines on 10+ year old cars
James M-S said:
As I understand it the clutch on these cars should be good for 45k miles, assuming not raced or rallied! So the car the op is looking at will have had at least one clutch, and will soon need another, unless it has had two clutches in which case it should be fine. In a sense if it does need a clutch that would be an advantage as the op could then chip the price, and get a new clutch whilst taking the opportunity to check the IMS etc.
Cheers
Rick
Rhodris-dad
Imola
- Joined
- 28 Nov 2013
- Messages
- 858
Basalt911 said:
Speaking from experience ........I ran a bore scored car for about 12 months after it was diagnosed, until a chocolate non-Porsche water pump that I fitted melted. (I then claimed on my warranty implicating this as the cause of the scoring)
If you don't mind surrounding your neighbours with a blue mist in the mornings when you first start up and keep topping the car up with oil pretty frequently it's OK (not being sarcastic :thumb: )
The thought of impending doom took some of the enjoyment of the car away.
A £10k repair bill is nothing to be sniffed at, no matter how affluent you may be.
I would certainly recommend a check and as someone has already mentioned, by somebody who knows exactly what they are looking for.
I would hate the OP to go out and buy a lemon. :thumb:
absolutely, recommend a check - a no-brainer
my point is that some light scoring is presumably acceptable on a 98k engine and too many people just run away at the mere mention of the S word (hence 10/11 cars quote). Light scoring and then all the right measures to prevent further damage is presumably acceptable at that age?
I guess nobody bore-scopes 98k M3s or Astons, but I assume they'd find less than perfect pictures if they did? Or maybe I'm talking b0ll0x.
my point is that some light scoring is presumably acceptable on a 98k engine and too many people just run away at the mere mention of the S word (hence 10/11 cars quote). Light scoring and then all the right measures to prevent further damage is presumably acceptable at that age?
I guess nobody bore-scopes 98k M3s or Astons, but I assume they'd find less than perfect pictures if they did? Or maybe I'm talking b0ll0x.
I don't know, I'm no expert, but if you were looking for a 997.1 and found mild scoring would you be happy - especially with the knowledge of the common failure?
My 986 boxster is on 160k miles (essentially same engine as the 997) , had the camera down the bores by my local indy - zero scoring marks.
My 996 turbo (different engine altogether) had a complete rebuild at 78k miles - no scoring whatsoever.. you could still see the cross-hatching on the cylinders from when they were manufactured.
10/11 sounds extreme and it probably is but this forum is littered with tales of people looking to buy who have walked away from many cars due to this. There's also a good few tales of engine failures unfortunately.
Its not just the M96/7 engines either. The V8's in my cayenne turbo are known to score! Incredible. :nooo:
My 986 boxster is on 160k miles (essentially same engine as the 997) , had the camera down the bores by my local indy - zero scoring marks.
My 996 turbo (different engine altogether) had a complete rebuild at 78k miles - no scoring whatsoever.. you could still see the cross-hatching on the cylinders from when they were manufactured.
10/11 sounds extreme and it probably is but this forum is littered with tales of people looking to buy who have walked away from many cars due to this. There's also a good few tales of engine failures unfortunately.
Its not just the M96/7 engines either. The V8's in my cayenne turbo are known to score! Incredible. :nooo:
Rhodris-dad
Imola
- Joined
- 28 Nov 2013
- Messages
- 858
Basalt911 said:
As "ragpicker" says...the engine has history....it is usually cylinders on bank 2 that score basically through overheating. This affects the coating on the pistons too. On some engines a light tap can be heard...which is piston slap.
The scoring is different to what you would expect..hence the need for someone with expert knowledge (not me :floor: )
There are some good photos on the Hartech website
My 996 engine was rebuilt by Hartech and when I sold it, I held out for a premium price (which some people questioned)
As a coincidence, I posted a PM to the guy who bought it off me last weekend, he is a member of this forum.
After 5 years of ownership he has had no issues, which is testament to the guys at Hartech and to me for emptying my wallet. :floor:
As someone looking for a 997 - I'm grateful to the OP for starting this thread and all the subsequent contributors.
However, some of the opinions expressed herein leave me a little nervous. Added to that, there is a car (S model) I've found that I am interested in but the seller organised a health check as part of the sales process to help buyers. The bore scope check simply reads 'clear'.
I'm not doubting this result (80k on car) but another thread on this site suggests the result is also influenced by the technician's ability and light quality etc. Added to this, Hartech seem to suggest that a clear scope now doesn't mean it'd be clear next year or the year after... etc.
I'm coming round to thinking I'm maybe simply better off considering a 997.1 c2 (with IMS upgraded) or aim for a 997.2 a little later down the line or a rebuild car. There was a GR 997 on Pistonheads last week for £8k requiring a rebuild but I'd prefer to buy and drive.
So, for the OP - yes, get a bore scope check but it seems it may only be as good as the technician and the result may only be 100% relevant at the time of purchase!
However, some of the opinions expressed herein leave me a little nervous. Added to that, there is a car (S model) I've found that I am interested in but the seller organised a health check as part of the sales process to help buyers. The bore scope check simply reads 'clear'.
I'm not doubting this result (80k on car) but another thread on this site suggests the result is also influenced by the technician's ability and light quality etc. Added to this, Hartech seem to suggest that a clear scope now doesn't mean it'd be clear next year or the year after... etc.
I'm coming round to thinking I'm maybe simply better off considering a 997.1 c2 (with IMS upgraded) or aim for a 997.2 a little later down the line or a rebuild car. There was a GR 997 on Pistonheads last week for £8k requiring a rebuild but I'd prefer to buy and drive.
So, for the OP - yes, get a bore scope check but it seems it may only be as good as the technician and the result may only be 100% relevant at the time of purchase!
Right.
Can you all stop running away from Bore Score cars?
As we have said, many times before, there are degrees of score. Light, expected, lots, bad. Just because a car has it, doesn't mean it is a problem. You need the Boroscope to be done by someone who actually know what they are doing. Get the pictures, ask the lovely people on here what they think (in private).
My car has 81k miles, was recently checked, and came up perfectly clean. I know there are people on here who have run cars with a little bit of scoring. I mean, it's an engine, every single engine in the world will show some scoring at some point, on any, of any make.
Get it checked (anyone know a good Indy in Devon? SCS? (arent they sofa's???))
98k miles isnt a problem, its all about if it's been looked after?
Now, back to bore score. Are the left hand tailpipes sooty? Does it smoke when running from that side only? These are the first things to check, because the bores are more susceptible on one side, which comes out the left hand side, so smoke, while running, for a period of time, from the left, probably bad bore scoring. BUT the only way to know for sure is to get it Boroscoped, which isn't expensive, cost me about £100 recently.
Don't get hung up on any one car, there are plenty out there, though sounds like you are at the low end of the budget scale. maybe look at a Cat D car? They are fine as long as they are repaired properly, and will be 30% cheaper.....
PM me if you want to chat, I went through the same thing 4 years ago!
Can you all stop running away from Bore Score cars?
As we have said, many times before, there are degrees of score. Light, expected, lots, bad. Just because a car has it, doesn't mean it is a problem. You need the Boroscope to be done by someone who actually know what they are doing. Get the pictures, ask the lovely people on here what they think (in private).
My car has 81k miles, was recently checked, and came up perfectly clean. I know there are people on here who have run cars with a little bit of scoring. I mean, it's an engine, every single engine in the world will show some scoring at some point, on any, of any make.
Get it checked (anyone know a good Indy in Devon? SCS? (arent they sofa's???))
98k miles isnt a problem, its all about if it's been looked after?
Now, back to bore score. Are the left hand tailpipes sooty? Does it smoke when running from that side only? These are the first things to check, because the bores are more susceptible on one side, which comes out the left hand side, so smoke, while running, for a period of time, from the left, probably bad bore scoring. BUT the only way to know for sure is to get it Boroscoped, which isn't expensive, cost me about £100 recently.
Don't get hung up on any one car, there are plenty out there, though sounds like you are at the low end of the budget scale. maybe look at a Cat D car? They are fine as long as they are repaired properly, and will be 30% cheaper.....
PM me if you want to chat, I went through the same thing 4 years ago!
thank guys for all your posts.... I am now in that paranoid moment as there are lots of horror stories about the Gen 1... am I better paying more for a gen 2????
not really fancying a engine rebuild at 8k......
the guy had the car advertised for 20k I have seen the reciept for the engine change at bristol porsche was cared for by them until 2013 then by SCS porsche in Devon... from the pictures looks like it had a few stone chips at the front and was in silver heated seats, BOSE and reversing sensors.
i thnik he had it up from around begining of Feb and it is no longer advertised it is still for sale but the advert has finished I think.
checked MOT history nothing much to report on that
Front tyres wearing slightly on inner edges only not from MOT
passed every MOT from 2013 only failed in 08 and 13 on head lamp aim....
:frustrated: :dont know:
not really fancying a engine rebuild at 8k......
the guy had the car advertised for 20k I have seen the reciept for the engine change at bristol porsche was cared for by them until 2013 then by SCS porsche in Devon... from the pictures looks like it had a few stone chips at the front and was in silver heated seats, BOSE and reversing sensors.
i thnik he had it up from around begining of Feb and it is no longer advertised it is still for sale but the advert has finished I think.
checked MOT history nothing much to report on that
Front tyres wearing slightly on inner edges only not from MOT
passed every MOT from 2013 only failed in 08 and 13 on head lamp aim....
:frustrated: :dont know:
T8
Super Moderator
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 21,390
tvrkris said:
If you're able to buy a Gen2 car I would.
It's a straight choice.
(a) Spend £30k now for a newer car and relative peace of mind.
(b) spend £20k now + a continuous nagging doubt + a possible £8k spend at some time.
Good luck :thumb:
spongebob squarepants
Yas Marina
- Joined
- 20 Dec 2009
- Messages
- 8,949
tvrkris said:
It's a high mileage car. Which has a huge effect on resale values. Everyone buys a Porsche to keep, no one ever does! Very hard to sell on with those miles, chance of the dreaded borescore, personally I'd run a mile. Ok the engines done half the miles, everything else hasn't. Think what the trade would be offering him for that car, and that's closer to its retail value.
There's plenty out there, it's a buyers market, just wait for the right one (with the engine already Hartech or equalivalent rebuilt by someone else!) easypeasy.
Everyone will say condition condition, unless your keeping it forever- mileage mileage!
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