997.2 GTS vs 997 Turbo Manual or GT3

Cheib · 4 Mar 2019

I'd be going for a 997.2 GT3 Clubsport if I was you but you'll be looking at a minimum £100k for one. GT cars are very mileage sesnsitive so and as a mad as it sounds if you want one as an investment it needs to have less than 15k miles on it at this stage. As has been said above PTS would definitely help but Uber rare...happens that there is one listed on PH but it's a mad £127k. I reckon it's probably worth £115. Wouldn't be surprised if someone bought it though, first I've seen advertised in a very long time.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classif...3-997/porsche-911-997-gen-ii-gt3-2011/9457442

The 997 Turbo that is sort after is the 997.2 Turbo S that is PDK only. The rare manual is a Gen '1.5" which is a Gen 1 with a Gen 2 interior, as that one you have linked to is. I wouldn't buy one under your criteria though. Naturally aspirated and manual are the two boxes you need to tick.

I own a manual 997.2 GTS it's a great road car but needs certain spec. Alcantara Interior, CL Whels, Leather Dash (Hexagon car doesn't have it) and a few other bits. They're fantastic cars. Hydraulic steering, Lovely gearbox (especially with the short shift) and the Powerkit engine revs out really nicely. Not as mileage sensitive as a GT car. I run mine alongside a 991.2 GT3. If you want to have a go in one I live in Bucks.

T8 · 4 Mar 2019

Cheib said:
The 997 Turbo that is sort after is the 997.2 Turbo S that is PDK only.

The rare manual is a Gen '1.5" which is a Gen 1 with a Gen 2 interior, as that one you have linked to is. I wouldn't buy one under your criteria though. Naturally aspirated and manual are the two boxes you need to tick.

The 997.2 Turbo is available in manual form but is very rare. I don't know about the 'S' - that might be PDK only.

Regarding the advert that was linked. The advert states that it is a 3.8 500 bhp car. That would make it a Gen2 not a Gen1.5 which had the Mezger 3.6 473 bhp engine.

maph · 4 Mar 2019

T8 said:
Regarding the advert that was linked. The advert states that it is a 3.8 500 bhp car. That would make it a Gen2 not a Gen1.5 which had the Mezger 3.6 473 bhp engine.

Yeah, that is a Gen 2, and as has been said very rare in manual. That one has an aftermarket body kit though so would need to be reverted back to standard if viewed from a purely investment perspective.

m119cars · 4 Mar 2019

Cheib said:
I'd be going for a 997.2 GT3 Clubsport if I was you but you'll be looking at a minimum £100k for one. GT cars are very mileage sesnsitive so and as a mad as it sounds if you want one as an investment it needs to have less than 15k miles on it at this stage. As has been said above PTS would definitely help but Uber rare...happens that there is one listed on PH but it's a mad £127k. I reckon it's probably worth £115. Wouldn't be surprised if someone bought it though, first I've seen advertised in a very long time.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classif...3-997/porsche-911-997-gen-ii-gt3-2011/9457442

Im pretty certain that car was advertised through OPC Nottingham late last year for £115k which I thought was a stonking price considering spec mileage and colour ( hence why ive still got the walk around video on my phone).

FZP · 4 Mar 2019

127k is a chancer price. Run of the mill GT3 are low to mid 90s in reality, despite advertised pricing showing otherwise in the market, and tgat figure is slowly alipping. Those seats don't look correct from my reckoning, but can be corrected on that. No PCCB'S missing as well at that price point.
£115k is about right for the car from OPC with OPC warranty in my man maths calculator.
OP, GT3 or a Turbo S Gen 2 are going to represent the least depreciation in my book. Good luck with the search.

mikeknivett · 6 Mar 2019

Thanks for all the advice guys. Much appreciated and the kind offer of a ride from Cheib.

One question what is a PTS colour?? Sorry if being thick.

911TEL · 6 Mar 2019

mikeknivett said:
Thanks for all the advice guys. Much appreciated and the kind offer of a ride from Cheib.

One question what is a PTS colour?? Sorry if being thick.

PTS = Paint To Sample

Special order colour from factory..

Mostly to be found on the GT cars as they suit them better (IMHO)

Normski298 · 16 Jul 2019

Bit of a thread revival, but this one is really interesting personally as I had also had my head turned by the 997.2 Turbo Manual at AUV.

Having had 993s for the past 6 years and now considering what else in the Pcar back catalogue I should experience, I have spent some time weighing up the pro's and cons of parting with my low mileage cherished 993 c4 and looking at a 997.2 GT3 or turbo manual.

Clearly the turbo is circa £40k cheaper than a GT3, but the thread comments are interesting about rarity/ potential future values:

Having worked in banking & the motor finance business, I'm well aware that "past performance is no reflection of future performance" when it comes to investing (cars as well...) and with prevailing headwinds of the Governments Road to Zero, who truly knows what future values of any car with an ICE will truly be (unless someone here posses a crystal ball?). I suspect in the next 10 - 20 years it will be extremely expensive to either buy fuel, tax a car, drive in a city (by that I mean significantly more than now) and who knows - maybe even impossible. But enough of the doom.......

I know GT3s are the go-to product by way of rarity & NA driver experience, but I would have thought that the .2 Turbo in manual would be an interesting rarity? Theres nowhere I can find which actually confirms production numbers, but given the .2 was a run-out update over a short period of time, it was during a financial crash, PDK was probably the choice of the majority and the relatively low amount for sale compared to any other model/ generation of 911, I'd speculate that there is a very very small amount of these in the UK?

So I would have thought that driving experience aside, a low mileage, .2 turbo manual with the ability to claim "last of the manual turbos" would be a good place to both enjoy the experience of driving and stick your hard-earned cash/ finance (either way its hard-earned in my view).

Purely my opinion - and probably because I'm wondering if it is just me that thinks this is possibly a bit of a unicorn car.

T8 · 16 Jul 2019

Normski298 said:
............. I would have thought that the .2 Turbo in manual would be an interesting rarity? Theres nowhere I can find which actually confirms production numbers, but given the .2 was a run-out update over a short period of time, it was during a financial crash, PDK was probably the choice of the majority and the relatively low amount for sale compared to any other model/ generation of 911, I'd speculate that there is a very very small amount of these in the UK? .......

And you'd be right.

Less than 3,500 Gen2 Turbos were produced and a very small percentage of those were manuals. I'd be very surprised if there were 50 in the UK.

iirc you couldn't get a Gen2 'Turbo S' in anything other than PDK.

Gazc2 · 16 Jul 2019

I`m not sure about the white manual linked in the start of this thread its a bit of a mixed bag spec wise for me, it has a techart kit (I think) no sports chrono and no sports seats so im not convinced this car has any more value in it compared to a better specced PDK long term, the prices of the Gen 2 cars are creeping down at the moment with a choice between the £60-75k mark which I do think are looking good value.

T8 · 16 Jul 2019

Gazc2 said:
..... the prices of the Gen 2 cars are creeping down at the moment with a choice between the £60-75k mark which I do think are looking good value.

Values are very mileage dependent. The white car at AUV is priced at the top end of this spread due to it having only 22k miles showing.

Normski298 · 16 Jul 2019

Gazc2 said:
I`m not sure about the white manual linked in the start of this thread its a bit of a mixed bag spec wise for me, it has a techart kit (I think) no sports chrono and no sports seats so im not convinced this car has any more value in it compared to a better specced PDK long term, the prices of the Gen 2 cars are creeping down at the moment with a choice between the £60-75k mark which I do think are looking good value.

Good points - but if there are less than say, 100 RHD manuals in the UK, perfect spec Vs availability will be a challenge. I think the AUV car is a factory aerokit (something I would want to check before driving 4 hours to view it) and I agree - no sport chrono is a key missing option. It took me 3 attempts to find the 993 in a spec I ultimately desired at the price I wanted and went through: Manual but no variorum, variorum but no aircon or sports seats. Actually, I'd probably rather my c4 was a c2 but I settled as it ticked nearly all of the boxes: sub 50k mileage, hardback sports seat, varioram and aircon (for what its worth.

Sounds like I'm trying to convince myself its a good buy, but as I said earlier, its a really interesting debate as I personally have no desire to sink 70k - £80k of my hard earned cash into something that is readily available in many formats and that will continue to depreciate in line with most cars.

Not being a track person and instead spend money on a couple of Eurotrips every year and have the benefit of both Dartmoor and Exmoor either side of my front door, the 997.2 turbo Vs the GT3 Vs the GTS is an interesting one for me. I absolutely love the .2 GT3 and would happily sell a body part or one of my children to buy one and I have the means to do so (money, not means to sell a child!), but I kind of like the potential rarity of a manual .2 turbo - I'd dare to suggest it may be rarer than a .2 GT3 - who knows?

There are currently 103 997 turbos on PH; 34 are manual; only 1 .2 turbo (from a quick & dirty search). Autotrader has 3 997.2 turbo manuals for sale - 2 have 50k+ miles on them. Interestingly the other white one claims to be 1 of 53 in the UK.

Anyway, that's my lunch break gone.

Diggermeister · 16 Jul 2019

Normski298 said:
Not being a track person and instead spend money on a couple of Eurotrips every year

You could do both and do a track day at Spa or the Nurburgring. :lol:

Joking aside, turbo vs. GT3 are very different. For my money, there are very few cars for capable, competent and comfortable for a long road trip than a turbo.

As for rarity, that's not always an arbiter of future value. (See Austin Allegro Vanden Plas for details.) Best to buy cars to drive them.

Gazc2 · 16 Jul 2019

Its not a factory aerokit, front splitter and rear spoiler are aftermarket

Normski298 · 16 Jul 2019

Diggermeister said:
Normski298 said:

Not being a track person and instead spend money on a couple of Eurotrips every year

Click to expand...

You could do both and do a track day at Spa or the Nurburgring. :lol:

Joking aside, turbo vs. GT3 are very different. For my money, there are very few cars for capable, competent and comfortable for a long road trip than a turbo.

As for rarity, that's not always an arbiter of future value. (See Austin Allegro Vanden Plas for details.) Best to buy cars to drive them.

Agreed. I was in Spa last month - bottled the track experience; maybe next time!

And I get your point around rarity - but at least the .2 turbo is a great car (I'm old enough to remember the allegro). I also have a Mercedes W202 c43 AMG - not many of them around these days, mainly because they have disintegrated through rust or they have been modified to death! But it's still a rare an interesting car for those in the know; and I kind of like that. Its not really appreciating - I didn't buy it to make any money. Lets face it, to many/ most people a 911 is a 911; they all look the same and are the same.

As already said, the one mentioned at the start of the thread probably isn't the ideal one - but its an interesting one and I'm really interested in what people think about its rarity & interest value more than "will it be worth the same as a 993 turbo in another 10 years time"

997.2 GTS vs 997 Turbo Manual or GT3

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